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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6360 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | This thread seems to have morphed into two separate issues. 1) about education
2)evolution
Maybe we could get some moderator who could separate them and provide us with two threads not one. |
so do we evolve as we learn, or do we learn as we evolve..  _________________ Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7560 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: |
so do we evolve as we learn, or do we learn as we evolve..  |
I think that for most people the answer is NO!  _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Silver Surfer King Kong

Joined: 12 Jul 2003 Posts: 2963 Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | RevJP wrote: | Dim, I don't think that it would make a difference, no matter what the topic it is going to diverge into a couple of specific discussions depending on who gets involved;
If it is SS then it will turn into a saturday sabbath discussion. If it is P123 it will turn into an evolution is god or Bush is evil discussion... |
Silver Surfer has talked about plenty of other things than saturday sabbath, and when has anyone on this board ever said evolution is god? Methinks that was an ill-spirited comment. |
A religious doctrine is anything that brings a person closer to his god.
It may be a concept, an activity, or even something totally unrelated to religion.
BUT, if it serves to promote the ideals of satan, the great god of this world, it is indeed a religious doctrine in the fullest sense of the word. _________________ Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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FFT Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 6065 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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So as long as you believe it is a religion, it is one.
Got it. _________________ When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7560 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of separation between church and state...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,263801,00.html _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6360 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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"We're not going to preach the Bible, we're going to teach the Bible and how it affects all of our writings, documents and the formation of our government," said Chisum. "We're taking it as a document that has historical value. It's the most widely distributed book in the world."
How do you suppose they'll "teach" the bible?
which version do you suppose they'll use? _________________ Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7560 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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It's obviously just an end-run, and a pretty sleazy one at that.
The intelligent design people do the same thing... "We don't want to teach creationism to kids; we just want to teach that everything was intelligently designed, and not that there is a designer."
 _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6360 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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preach [ preech ] (past and past participle preached, present participle preach·ing, 3rd person present singular preach·es)
verb
Definition:
1. transitive and intransitive verb religion give sermon: to give a talk on a religious or moral subject, especially in church
2. intransitive verb give advice in irritating way: to give advice on morality or behavior in an irritatingly tedious or overbearing way
3. transitive verb urge people to accept idea: to make an opinion or attitude known to others and urge others to share it
Ok so we're not going to give advice on morality or behavior. And we're not going to try to have people accept what the bible says....
but we're going to teach the what?
Languages of hebrew/greek..translations, word structures, pronuciations, poetry....???
We are going to talk about the bible and try to get people to learn....
This may be a very controversial subject in the classroom. specially if there are different faiths in the class. Not bad enough we have 11 year olds having sex in the classroom while the teachers away, now we can have an all out holy war in the classroom with the teacher leading the way...
I say Isaac, you say Ishmael. Jesus is God, no he's a prophet...class...class....CLASS!!!...
I would like to see the curriculum for that class. What do you suppose the homework would be?
Hey mom? dad? LOLOL...
| Quote: | | The intelligent design people do the same thing... "We don't want to teach creationism to kids; we just want to teach that everything was intelligently designed, and not that there is a designer." |
How do you teach intelligent design without recognizing the designer behind the intelligence?
this world is wacky...  _________________ Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Silver Surfer King Kong

Joined: 12 Jul 2003 Posts: 2963 Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Should Public schools teach religion ?
QUESTION: How can the public school system teach what they have no knowledge of ? _________________ Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6360 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Critics also argue that the bill's implementation this fall is too soon to have qualified Bible scholars in place. |
They want to teach the bible like a text book, not a worship document, And their looking for "Bible scholars" to do this?..
Wouldn't it be better just to teach it in history or english/language or social studies....by a regular teacher who isn't prone to preaching?
If their not going to teach it as a worship document, then what's the need for a Bible scholar?
Maybe they should require you to have no religious tendencies whatsoever. That way they can't say their bias or credit pet students who agree with their theology?
I'm not against it, I think it will be great. But I also believe it's going to cause a lot of problems. Specially when it comes to teaching "thou shalt not murder" and they all bring guns to school. Or to refrain from fornication while they're making out in the classroom.
Maybe, just maybe...it's a good thing.
Maybe, it will resurrect....Common Sense..  _________________ Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7560 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: |
| Quote: | | The intelligent design people do the same thing... "We don't want to teach creationism to kids; we just want to teach that everything was intelligently designed, and not that there is a designer." |
How do you teach intelligent design without recognizing the designer behind the intelligence?
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That's the point... They're clearly trying to make an end run around the separation between church and state by giving a flimsy argument saying that ID isn't creationism, when in fact it's creationism in the classic sense. All of the ID arguments were around during Darwin's time. _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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rjustice7 Growing Guppy
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Johnson City, TX
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: WHY NOT TEACH IT? |
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| When I was in high school, we learned all about Mohammed, and Islamic beliefs. We learned about Buddha, and Confuscious, but I don’t even remember touching Christianity. I mean we covered things like the Church of England, the Roman Catholic Church and it’s effects on Europe, etc… But why not teach the kids who Jesus was, even if they want to say, “The Christians believe Jesus was…” I say at least give us as much recognition as they do the other religions. And why not teach Creation. They shoved Evolution down our throats. I think they could teach both. I am a Creationist, but when I have kids, if they are in the public school system, and they are being taught evolution, I would appreciate it they would teach them creation as well. I’m not saying we should let the school systems teach kids how to pray or live a holy, separated lifestyle, but at least teach them as much as they do about Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam. I understand we are a nation that professes 86% Christianity, but that doesn’t mean Christianity shouldn’t be recognized in schools because it’s taught in homes. |
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Silver Surfer King Kong

Joined: 12 Jul 2003 Posts: 2963 Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: Re: WHY NOT TEACH IT? |
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| rjustice7 wrote: |
I understand we are a nation that professes 86% Christianity, but that doesn’t mean Christianity shouldn’t be recognized in schools because it’s taught in homes. | Just because a nation professes to be Christian, means that they are...Christian ?
Bible Prophecy foretells that this Nation (USA), will be the forerunner, of enforcing the Mark of the Beast.
Remember Judas, a professed disciple of Christ Himself ? _________________ Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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atoz Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 4189
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Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Should public schools teach religion? |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Is there actually anyone here who thinks that their kids should be learning how to pray, what rites to perform, etc. in public school?
Should public schools teach that God exists and that Jesus died for all of our sins?
Should creation be taught in school? If so, should it be taught in science class or some place else?
I bet that nobody here can predict what my answers to these questions are... |
Hi P,
Welcome.
1. The Science of Religion & the Religion of Science shd be taught in this same way:
Equal Love for each word and its opposite, and so for all religions and all sciences. Then the kids know how to be loving in attitude if some choose to pray and other choose to not pray; if some choose to do math or to not do math; etc and etc.
NB: This unconditional Love also makes your reasonable approach doubly reasonable as expressed in your first post: Love for the trusted and untrusted/distrusted means anything you come to distrust still has the trust of your Love just as anyone that comes to distrust you will still love you, and anything you trust is in double trust: your trust plus the trust of your Love.
2: Kids wd be taught to love whoever they thought existed and to love whoever they thot did not exist. They love mickey mouse and he does not exist. So there is no reason to hate who or what they think does not exist. They wd be taught that since Love is unconditional, the first mistake in thinking or in freedom of speech is to hate any word. They wd be taught to prove for themselves if JC lived in Love and died in Love in order to show us all how to live and die. They wd be taught to love moses and mohammed and buddha and etc and all religions and the religion of no religion: they wd be taught to love all words, then left to choose in Love one religion or all religions or the religion of no religion.
3. All words including creation and evolution are to be loved and taught. The kids are then left to prove and chose in Love.
in the Love that makes Freedom of Thought unwasted on you and me,
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rjustice7 Growing Guppy
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Johnson City, TX
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: Exactly... |
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| Exactly my point Silver Surfer. I stated that 86% of the nation PROFESSES Christianity. That doesn't mean I believe they actually live that lifestyle. That's why I'm saying we should be taught in schools about Christianity, just as much as we are about Islam and Buddhism in World History classes. Because the nation PROFESSES 86% Christianity I believe the education system assumes that children know enough about it. I'm saying just because they PROFESS Christianity, and some children are being taught things about Christianity in their homes, the education system shouldn't cut it out of curriculums. |
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