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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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 Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Since men also retain the ability to produce milk if given the correct hormones I would think that the evo argument would be that the nipples and the lactatian ability exist so that in extreme tough times men can nurture babies.
Joman. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Uh, why would that be an argument anyone would use?
In "extreme tough times" men aren't going to have access to whatever hormones are necessary in the first place, much less realize that they can feed their kids that way. It's not a trait that would be selected for so it's just a genetic oddity.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | Uh, why would that be an argument anyone would use?
In "extreme tough times" men aren't going to have access to whatever hormones are necessary in the first place, much less realize that they can feed their kids that way. It's not a trait that would be selected for so it's just a genetic oddity. |
Who's to say that the hormones can't be triggered in a man? You realize that the central dogma of biology has been refuted.
Joman. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | | You realize that the central dogma of biology has been refuted. |
Joman, you've got to understand how ludicrous your extremist arguments sound to 'normal' ears. On one hand you reject biology and think that the central 'dogma' (even if there were such a thing) has been refuted (which it hasn't). Nothing which mainstream science (or any science for that matter) currently endorses has been refuted. That's part of the definition of science; scientists only believe things which have not yet been refuted.
...So you say these extreme things... But then at the same time you're talking about mystery hormones which as far as you know the male body can't even produce (especially in times of hardship) as the reason for why men have nipples -for feeding children!
I'll give you a more reasonable argument for why men have nipples: shortly after Adam and Eve were tossed out of the Garden of Eden, Adam did not have nipples. One day, aliens from the planet Zebulon Triaxis came down, captured Adam, and genetically reconstituted him so that he would have nipples. And he passed these traits on to all of his male offspring.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Hey, you've got to have someplace to hang that extra pair of earrings, right? 
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | | Who's to say that the hormones can't be triggered in a man? |
I haven't heard about any spontaneous male lactation showing up in Ethiopia, for instance.
| joman wrote: | | You realize that the central dogma of biology has been refuted. |
Oh right, silly me.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| P- wrote: | | Joman, you've got to understand how ludicrous your extremist arguments sound to 'normal' ears. On one hand you reject biology and think that the central 'dogma' (even if there were such a thing) has been refuted (which it hasn't). Nothing which mainstream science (or any science for that matter) currently endorses has been refuted. That's part of the definition of science; scientists only believe things which have not yet been refuted. |
Wrong. It just an embarrassment evo's won't admit too.
| Quote: | | ...So you say these extreme things... But then at the same time you're talking about mystery hormones which as far as you know the male body can't even produce (especially in times of hardship) as the reason for why men have nipples -for feeding children! |
The hormones aren't unknown P-.
Joman. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | I haven't heard about any spontaneous male lactation showing up in Ethiopia, for instance. |
| FFT wrote: | | Oh right, silly me. |
Your in denial too eh? Never heard of the "central dogma of biology"?
Remember, it's back from when Francis Crick stole the idea of a helical dna structure from the lady down the hall who received no credit for it. You know, the Francis Crick who thought that dna-->rna-->protein was a one way deal? And, all the dogmatic evo's followed lock step with his reasoning until science was actually performed which invalidated such a hopeful and simplistic view. And, now the ruse is to pretend they weren't ever that biased about the notion.
Why do men have the organs and the nipples capable of producing milk when the proper hormone is injected?
Joman. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | | Your in denial too eh? Never heard of the "central dogma of biology"? |
Oh, I've seen you use the term. I just think it's hilarious that you always assert it's been refuted and then don't bother to support your assertion. Remember this?
| joman wrote: | | Why do men have the organs and the nipples capable of producing milk when the proper hormone is injected? |
They've already got the organs and nipples, the hormones simply activate the organs. Further, humans aren't the only species in which males can lactate. At the very least, the Dayak (or Dyak) fruit bat can.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | | And, all the dogmatic evo's followed lock step with his reasoning until science was actually performed which invalidated such a hopeful and simplistic view. |
I get it. You think that you know more about science than all of the scientists on the planet, including all of the Nobel Prize winners.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: |
Why do men have the organs and the nipples capable of producing milk when the proper hormone is injected?
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Is this the story you're going to stick to? God designed man to have nipples so that he can be injected with hormones if necessary?!?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Oh, I've seen you use the term. I just think it's hilarious that you always assert it's been refuted and then don't bother to support your assertion. Remember this? |
I guess you've never typed it into a search eh?
So, I should study for you? Nah!
You want to pretend ignorance then have at it. I could care less if you respond.
But, for all you not so gullible please do a search, live and learn.
[quote ="FFT"]They've already got the organs and nipples, the hormones simply activate the organs. Further, humans aren't the only species in which males can lactate. At the very least, the Dayak (or Dyak) fruit bat can.[/quote]
See how it is? Now you've gone and searched and found out some things eh?
Hmmm...you've failed to mention why?
Joman. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| P- wrote: | | Is this the story you're going to stick to? God designed man to have nipples so that he can be injected with hormones if necessary?!? |
No, I gave my answer earlier on. This little side bit is to show other readers how ad hoc you and FFT's reasonings are.
Joman. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Joman, no thanks; I'll get my science from real scientists and journals and not some quack internet sites.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| P- wrote: | | I get it. You think that you know more about science than all of the scientists on the planet, including all of the Nobel Prize winners. |
This is a loser's argument.
Thanks, for the admission.
Joman. |
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