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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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 Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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 -k-k-
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6096
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | In my opinion; anyone who chooses not to involve him or herself in the proceses established by this country for the governance of this country has no right to complain about that governence. If you choose not to make your opinion count through the vote then you should just shut the hell up and be satisfied with what you get. |
I vote.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | FFT... that there college you are attending... they do have a history department... yea? In said history department there should be a few courses in American history detailing how the soldier fought and gained your rights in the revolutionary war, and it has been the soldier who has stood up and fought to defend your rights when they were in jeopardy. |
"Do be a dear and explain how soldiers are protecting my rights?" Not "Do be a dear and explain how soldiers have protected my rights?"
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Do you actually think for a second that if our country did not have an Army with soldiers that your rights would still be present today? |
Okay, they are protecting my rights by being soldiers. That we have soldiers protects our rights. Conceded.
Why are they in Iraq? Because it certainly isn't to protect my rights.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | I see three here... which one is it? |
One and three of course, as it'd be a bit odd to accuse someone of the third.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Your the one applying moral equivalency here... not me. Answer the question! |
I'm not denying that there's a difference. I'm simply pointing out that just because there's a difference doesn't mean that it's okay. The ends do not justify the means, period.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tri wrote: | | playing loud music? |
hey bro that can hurt...bad... i know...  ...i have been a victim of it...
once at a night ranger concert (give me a break it was back in the eighties ok!!!)...they had the speaker so loud my ears actually ached in pain and i had to stick cigarette butts in my ears plus cover them with my hands... 
plus...did you know the chinese gov. puts CHRISTians in prison in the winter time, strips them down, soaks them with water then turns fan on them...
i really don't want to be associated with that type of thing tri...it is not right...and i know what the terrorist do ain't right, but we can't let them turn us into the things we hate...
but i read the other day where bush made a stand on this when chaney's remarks about dunking terrorist were the story of the day...
he(bush) said...we don't torture people, we are not going to torture people...
for that one minute...he did us...the u.s....proud...  |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Do you actually think for a second that if our country did not have an Army with soldiers that your rights would still be present today? |
Okay, they are protecting my rights by being soldiers. That we have soldiers protects our rights. Conceded.
Why are they in Iraq? Because it certainly isn't to protect my rights. |
FFT, the fact they are in Iraq today still does not mean they are defending your rights. Are the soldiers in Iraq defending your rights any less than those in Afghanistan? Sitting on the DMZ in South Korea? Or the ones who stood watch in Berlin during the 1980s? Fought in Gulf War in 1991?
How do you draw the distinction here as I can make sure a few of them get the message that when they are in Iraq they are doing less than those who are in Afghanistan... or the ones sitting in a Nuke Site in Nebraska... let me know... -k-?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Your the one applying moral equivalency here... not me. Answer the question! |
I'm not denying that there's a difference. I'm simply pointing out that just because there's a difference doesn't mean that it's okay. The ends do not justify the means, period. |
I see... so it is alright to make your point then to equate our soldiers to terrorists as long as we can see the distinction? I fail to see your point. You are drawing correlations between interrogation techniques that we have used to hacking off heads. I find it repugnant and am surprised that someone like you can fail to delineate between the two.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do you draw the distinction here as I can make sure a few of them get the message that when they are in Iraq they are doing less than those who are in Afghanistan... or the ones sitting in a Nuke Site in Nebraska... let me know... -k-? |
tri...that sounded close to a threat....i have to agree that those soldiers being in iraq are not doing anything as far as defending freedom at home goes...nor are they there to defend our rights...
do they defend our rights...yes...are they doing that by being in iraq...no...imo... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: |
tri...that sounded close to a threat.... |
That threat would go something like this?
"GI Joe, I debate on this message board... and there is this fella... FFT... and he thi..."
"Um... FFT... yea... he thinks that you gu"
"Its a message board where we discuss issues that... what?"
"FFT"
"Yea... I want to you to know he doesn't like you to much!"
Somehow TSS... that just seem to work to well.
| Quote: | i have to agree that those soldiers being in iraq are not doing anything as far as defending freedom at home goes...nor are they there to defend our rights...
do they defend our rights...yes...are they doing that by being in iraq...no...imo... |
And TSS... they will go anywhere and do anything to defend your right to express your opinion.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| yes sir...this i know...that is their job that they choose to do...freely by their own decision...as it was mine when i joined...and no one is talking down about them...we know they will do as they are ordered...what is being questioned is the order...and the order to go to iraq, was not in defense of our rights here...i think that is what fft is saying...but not sure nor do i pretend ot speak for him...i am just saying if that is what he is saying i agree... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Forgot to add this point FFT:
| FFT wrote: | | Why are they in Iraq? Because it certainly isn't to protect my rights. |
It is odd that you think this as Osama bin Laden thinks that is where this war is being fought at. I'll take his word for it and focus my energy there.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| so you are saying before we went into iraq....that we knew we'd be fighting osama there...and that is why we went?....no sir...that just came along after the fact...so once again...being there ...going there to start with...has/had nothing to do with defending our freedoms here...and had we not gone there...osama's gang would not be terrorizing the iraqi people...we know this because they were not doing it before we got there...and were not able to do it before we got there... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | so you are saying before we went into iraq....that we knew we'd be fighting osama there...and that is why we went?....no sir...that just came along after the fact... |
No argument here... I'm not saying that at all. We didn't go to
iraq to go fight OBL or Al Queda... we went there for other reasons that I have repeatedly listed on this board... however, at the time, the intelligence stated that there was a connection... albeit small... there were thought to be contacts between the two... anyhow...
| Quote: | | so once again...being there ...going there to start with...has/had nothing to do with defending our freedoms here... |
Wrong, OBL has declared war on the US... attacked our country... and continues to want to harm our country. He has stated that Iraq ia part of this war... I'll take him at his word and take the fight there.
| Quote: | | and had we not gone there...osama's gang would not be terrorizing the iraqi people... |
You are right... Saddam's secret police would be... I guess tha makes it better?
| Quote: | | we know this because they were not doing it before we got there...and were not able to do it before we got there. |
Right... Saddam was doing this... why should he let OBL terrorize the Iraqi peole when he was doing a good enough job himself?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6096
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | FFT, the fact they are in Iraq today still does not mean they are defending your rights. |
That doesn't really sound like what you were trying to say earlier.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Are the soldiers in Iraq defending your rights any less than those in Afghanistan? |
Since neither appear to be protecting my rights at the moment through any means past existing, I'd say that it would be impossible for one to be protecting my rights less than the other.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | How do you draw the distinction here as I can make sure a few of them get the message that when they are in Iraq they are doing less than those who are in Afghanistan... or the ones sitting in a Nuke Site in Nebraska... let me know... -k-? |
Ah, now I see. The goalposts have been shifted.
I've already conceded that having soldiers in general protects our rights as citizens.
I do not agree that having them in Iraq specifically (or Afghanistan specifically for that matter) protects our rights any more than just having them does. In fact, it seems to make the world more dangerous. How is this a good thing?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | I see... so it is alright to make your point then to equate our soldiers to terrorists as long as we can see the distinction? |
We were talking about torture, weren't we? Not our soldiers being terrorists which was actually a distinct issue.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | I fail to see your point. |
That happens with strawmen.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | You are drawing correlations between interrogation techniques that we have used to hacking off heads. |
Murder isn't torture. Further, murder's a pretty sorry interrogation technique seeing as you can't get much information out of a dead man.
I am not drawing a correlation between us torturing people and them murdering people, I'm not even making a correlation between us torturing people and them torturing people. I am pointing out that 1. we are torturing people and 2. the ends (unreliable information) do not justify the means (torture) and that therefore 3. it is wrong for us to torture people. There is an extra (doesn't really apply to me) 4. If you are a Christian, you know that no one sin is better than another, and that if you are guilty of one you are guilty of them all.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | I find it repugnant and am surprised that someone like you can fail to delineate between the two. |
I find it hilariously amusing that I had already figured out that this was what you were going to do. Seriously, do you misinterpret like this intentionally?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | Why are they in Iraq? Because it certainly isn't to protect my rights. |
It is odd that you think this as Osama bin Laden thinks that is where this war is being fought at. I'll take his word for it and focus my energy there. |
Oh man, you want to bring up Osama bin Laden? The guy we've been chasing and somehow have failed to capture over the course of nearly 5 years now?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Trinity1"] | Quote: | | No argument here... I'm not saying that at all. We didn't go to iraq to go fight OBL or Al Queda... we went there for other reasons that I have repeatedly listed on this board... however, at the time, the intelligence stated that there was a connection... albeit small... there were thought to be contacts between the two... anyhow... |
this is a contradiction of your next point..i am sure i just misunderstand what you are trying to say...please clarify.....
| Quote: | | Wrong, OBL has declared war on the US... attacked our country... and continues to want to harm our country. He has stated that Iraq ia part of this war... I'll take him at his word and take the fight there. |
he stated that before or after we invaded iraq?...if after then iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror, but now is its focal point...that would be our mistake...
| Quote: | | You are right... Saddam's secret police would be... I guess tha makes it better? |
well...in a nation where the citizens were armed to the teeth by the mad man in charge...it is their own fault...it only takes one bullet...i mean i know a marine that told me every almost every house he entered had atleast one ak 47 and loads of ammo..plus many had launchers and rpg's...i believe that because it has been supported by other reports from those there...plus you can see the idiots on the news walking around with them...
| Quote: | | Right... Saddam was doing this... why should he let OBL terrorize the Iraqi peole when he was doing a good enough job himself? |
my point exactly...but see above answer...they should have taken him out themsleves if they really didn't like it...sadr has men willing to die for him....you mean one of them could not have killed saddam when he made a public appearance and paid the price for it...they willing kill themselves for less... |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | fine then (edit  ) in the next blasted election i will march out and vote...: |
i tried to pray but this comment keeps popping up inmy mind over and over...and conviction follows...there is no way i can vote...sorry for lying in my anger...but my conscience and uderstanding of scripture just won't allow me to vote for a man to be my leader...GOD bless.. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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they all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrams on earth. for they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
but now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore GOD is not ashamed to be called their GOD: for HE hath prepared them a city. |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Tss, you guys can't even do a write-in campaign?
If you can, do a write-in and put God on the ballot, then you have voted, and voted the only way you feel is apropiate.
On the other hand, my undersytanding of the Bible tells me that God does not care much about who you select to be your leader, because the leader will always be the one God favours.
Fake
_________________
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
“If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.” |
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