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StElsewhere
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: Re: The Identity of the 144,000 |
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| Zathrus wrote: | I thought I'd share some exciting thoughts on the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation. This is the description of the 144,000 in Rev 7:
"14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
Compare that with this description in Rev 22, commonly accepted as being of we believers in our eternal state:
"3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."
And this passage from Rev 21:
"3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
Note Rev 22:4 which I quoted above.
| Quote: | | 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. |
As I mentioned, this is generally understood to be talking about us in our eternal glorified state.
In Rev 14, it says this about the 144,000:
| Quote: | | 1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. |
Hopefully my color coding helped point out that wherever the 144,000 are described, their description matches that of us, the believers in Christ. What the author is showing his 1st century readers is that the church is the true heavenly Israel! It is those who are of faith, bot Jew and Gentile who are the "remnant of Israel" who were faithful to the Lord, without sin and without deception because they believe in Jesus as Messiah. They are the true Israel, and the 144,000. |
The 144,000 are Blood washed Saints who are of the physical "Seed of Abraham" ...12,000 from each of the surviving 12 tribes ...that specific number ...added to the uncountable number of "Gentile" Saints...will fulfill God's promise to Abraham .. to make his seed as the numbers of the stars!  |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Re: The Identity of the 144,000 |
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| StElsewhere wrote: | | The 144,000 are Blood washed Saints who are of the physical "Seed of Abraham" ...12,000 from each of the surviving 12 tribes ...that specific number ...added to the uncountable number of "Gentile" Saints...will fulfill God's promise to Abraham .. to make his seed as the numbers of the stars! 8-) |
There is no Scripture which shows that God has ever receive the Nation of Israel, back.....after, He rejected them (Daniel 9:24-27.......Matthew 21:33-46)
Spiritual Israel (144,000), will be comprised of Christians, ONLY.
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2272
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Actually, there is no scripture that shows that God ever rejected those who are of national Israel to begin with.
Romans 11:1,2
| Quote: | I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, |
There were many of them who rejected God. He has not rejected them. But if what you are getting at is that God does not consider an earthly nation or bloodline to be His chosen people, there you are right. God considers all those who are of faith, regardless what nation, color or ethnicity they are of, Jew or Gentile, to be HIs chosen people, and the true children of Abraham.
St Elsewhere, I thought I was having deja vu, then I read your post on page 6 of this thread.
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Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
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StElsewhere
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: Re: The Identity of the 144,000 |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | StElsewhere wrote: | | The 144,000 are Blood washed Saints who are of the physical "Seed of Abraham" ...12,000 from each of the surviving 12 tribes ...that specific number ...added to the uncountable number of "Gentile" Saints...will fulfill God's promise to Abraham .. to make his seed as the numbers of the stars! |
There is no Scripture which shows that God has ever receive the Nation of Israel, back.....after, He rejected them (Daniel 9:24-27.......Matthew 21:33-46)
Spiritual Israel (144,000), will be comprised of Christians, ONLY. |
Agreed...I never said there was anything but judgment for the nation of Israel...but "Saints" are the 144,000 Seed of Abraham plus the rest of the Blood washed Saints! |
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StElsewhere
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | Actually, there is no scripture that shows that God ever rejected those who are of national Israel to begin with.
Romans 11:1,2
| Quote: | I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, |
There were many of them who rejected God. He has not rejected them. But if what you are getting at is that God does not consider an earthly nation or bloodline to be His chosen people, there you are right. God considers all those who are of faith, regardless what nation, color or ethnicity they are of, Jew or Gentile, to be HIs chosen people, and the true children of Abraham.
St Elsewhere, I thought I was having deja vu, then I read your post on page 6 of this thread. |
Daja Vu...who knows...but the Saints of God are more than 144,000...those are specific to 12,000 from each of the surviving tribes of Israel...Who they are? and where they are...only God knows...but for sure there are more t than 144,000 Saints of the true and Living God.:
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The 144,000 are added to this amount to fulfill God's promise to Abraham...to make his sees ad the number of the stars! |
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