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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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and before you ask (which strangely, no one has ever asked, just assumed) if I am a Reverend or not; I will say that I am not ordained by any denomination or organized religion.
Am I a minister? I am, as are all of the faithful. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| zadok17 wrote: | But those that would set themselves up as Preachers,Reverends etc, those that are supposed to be leaders of the flock and they come off as Biblically Illiterate, I tend to let them have it with both barrels,
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However, I do not think that even with the years that I have been a student of Gods word that I am qualified to set myself up as a leader of Gods flock so I merely am content to call myself a student of Gods word. |
Good thing, too, because if you showed any less humility, I would have had to point out that JUDGING people by calling them 'Biblically Illiterate' would only be something that someone who is Biblically illiterate does.  |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Not to mention the act of placing oneself in a position where they feel justified or qualified to demean or 'tear down' those the Body of Christ and God has selected to be leaders of His flock...
We don't really even have to go into the rather bizzare interpretations of scripture that have been presented by one who feels himself justified in demeaning and belitting others of the faith... |
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zadok17
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | and before you ask (which strangely, no one has ever asked, just assumed) if I am a Reverend or not; I will say that I am not ordained by any denomination or organized religion.
Am I a minister? I am, as are all of the faithful. |
Well technically, no denomination or organization can ordain you anyhow. ONLY GOD CAN TRULY ordain ( appoint) one to the ministry. Many people see think they see a sign in the sky and think God is telling them to go preach but instead, He's telling them to go plow, LOL. Asl my pastor who ordained him to preach and he will always say, my ordination comes from the Lord. There is no higher authority than that. I get suspicious when one is asked who ordained them and they start naming some Doctor of Theology etc as if that is impressive. ONLY GOD can truly ordain someone to preach. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Really? What of Acts and the laying on of hands? Is that just filler in a novel or does it mean something? What of elders and the Body's selection of elders, does not scripture address that?
Anyone can walk into a room and say "God ordained me to lead this flock!" and everything is hunky dorey? |
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zadok17
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | zadok17 wrote: | But those that would set themselves up as Preachers,Reverends etc, those that are supposed to be leaders of the flock and they come off as Biblically Illiterate, I tend to let them have it with both barrels,
...
However, I do not think that even with the years that I have been a student of Gods word that I am qualified to set myself up as a leader of Gods flock so I merely am content to call myself a student of Gods word. |
Good thing, too, because if you showed any less humility, I would have had to point out that JUDGING people by calling them 'Biblically Illiterate' would only be something that someone who is Biblically illiterate does. |
That's not judging people my friend. That's merely making an observation and calling it like I see it. Sometimes we take this thing about Judging out of context. After all if you wish to start a ball team wouldn't you have the players try out to see who are the best players. After all you want only the best players on this team don't you to increase your chances of winning? Then you have judged them, judged their skill level etc. Ain't nuthin wrong wit thet theah, LOL. |
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zadok17
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Good grief, LOL. I think my southern country accent is ahowing up in some of my posts, LOL. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem here zadok is that you have demonstrated in other threads that you judge the condition of another's relationship with God. THAT is the type of judging that scripture admonishes against. |
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zadok17
Show Poodle
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Really? What of Acts and the laying on of hands? Is that just filler in a novel or does it mean something? What of elders and the Body's selection of elders, does not scripture address that?
Anyone can walk into a room and say "God ordained me to lead this flock!" and everything is hunky dorey? |
Any of the brothers of the flock can lay hands on another. But those that are novices, that haven't been thoroughly trained in Gods word should realize their limitations. I am amazed at how say a surgeon goes to school for many years to learn his craft and they go through all types of rigors before they are let loos to practice after all they are one day gonna hold some patients life in their hands. But take the Church and some of the so called MINISTERS/PREACHERS they have leading them. They have had only a little training in Gods word, certtainly not enough to set themselves as leaders of Gods flock. If a surgeon has to train for years and years before he is ready then since the SOUL of a person is onvolved should not these so called preachers have even more training than that which is required of a surgeon. I remember back when I was a kid, a 14 year old kid claimed that he was called to preach and the Pastor of that church actually had the nerve to allow this kid to get up in the pulpit and call himself preaching, lol. What utter nonsense. This kid had no training and the Pastor should have known better. He had no wisdom so hes hould not have been leading the church himself. Ask the kid an in-depth Bible question and he'd look at you like you had just hurt his feelings. I had no sympathy for him cause he was the one that claim that He had been called to preach and God does NOT SEND ANYONE FORTH UNPREPARED. |
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zadok17
Show Poodle
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | The problem here zadok is that you have demonstrated in other threads that you judge the condition of another's relationship with God. THAT is the type of judging that scripture admonishes against. |
You're bearing false witness here Rev! I do correct those that I think are in error but I do not judge anyones relationship with God. We are told after all by the word of God to reprove and rebuke with all authority. If the fact that I do this bothers someone than they need to take that before the Lord. I will not apologize for teaching the word of God with a little salt. Christians are supposed to be salty. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| zadok17 wrote: |
That's not judging people my friend. That's merely making an observation and calling it like I see it. Sometimes we take this thing about Judging out of context. After all if you wish to start a ball team wouldn't you have the players try out to see who are the best players. After all you want only the best players on this team don't you to increase your chances of winning? Then you have judged them, judged their skill level etc. Ain't nuthin wrong wit thet theah, LOL. |
This sounds like judging to me. Telling people that they don't understand the Bible as well as you do is tantamount to telling them that they are not as righteous as you are. And picking a ball team is DEFINITELY an example of judging. Or more accurately, it is an example of first judging someone's abilities, and then discriminating against them based on that judgment.
I can just imagine a parable about Jesus and the baseball game in the Bible. It would go something like this: the village gets together to have a ball game. Jesus is one of the captains. The other captain constantly picks the best players, whereas Jesus makes what are considered to be really strange picks. First he picks the old man who happens to be a good man. Next he picks the cripple, and so on. Then they play their game, and Jesus' team (called "Christ's Cowboys") gets totally thrashed. But by the end of it, the other team is the one who feels humiliated and their victory is totally hollow because all they did was beat a team of invalids. And then Jesus points out the lesson in all of this.
So to answer your question, if you were picking a ball team, then no, you might not pick all of the best players.
Last edited by P1234567890 on Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Not to mention the act of placing oneself in a position where they feel justified or qualified to demean or 'tear down' those the Body of Christ and God has selected to be leaders of His flock...
We don't really even have to go into the rather bizzare interpretations of scripture that have been presented by one who feels himself justified in demeaning and belitting others of the faith... |
First of all, I like to think that I don't demean or belittle the Christians here, but rather I challenge them. Do I or don't I try very hard to not insult people here personally?
But secondly, not being a Christian, I am not bound by the rules in the Bible, so even if I were guilty as charged by you, that would not make me a hypocrite. For example, I feel perfectly justified in judging other human beings in certain situations. Pedophiles are a good example. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Deu 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear [the causes] between your brethren, and judge righteously between [every] man and his brother, and the stranger [that is] with him.
Pro 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
Psa 67:4 O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.
Psa 96:10 Say among the heathen [that] the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
Where is the Lord?
in your heart and in your mind? Does he dwell in you?
If so, then it is not you who judges another, but God that is within you which judges.
who said we are not judge? who said thou wast naked and had no power to make righteous judgements in my name?
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Paul worries me sometimes...
A snake bit him and he didn't die, yet he has a thorn in his flesh he can't remove.
So why didn't he have faith enough to remove the thorn, Jesus says all power I have given to you....
like Peter, Lord says, you can walk on water Peter if your faith is strong, and Peter starts to fall.
Luk 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
Some things Paul teaches..He has turned away from the law which is the light and lamp of the feet. I see him beginning to fall away as he leaves the word of God behind.
So I have to ask..
Do you trust Paul's flesh or the Lord's Spirit?
Do you trust man's word? or God's word?
Is it right to judge between good and evil, or just let evil rule the day?
Hey P...about that ball game.
Those that had been lame and crippled and had no strength to play...
They would have been as strong as giants and would have won the game.
Then the other team would have been ashamed because they put their faith in the looks of the players on the outside and not recognized the strength of the spirit within the other team.
It's all about appearances....and how they can be decieving..
God Bless
Lone |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5880
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | and before you ask (which strangely, no one has ever asked, just assumed) if I am a Reverend or not; I will say that I am not ordained by any denomination or organized religion. |
And this is hilarious, because most people tend to ask if you're a reverend because your words belie your apparent username. Want me to pull up quotes? Because I know for certain that at least the guy that talked about it most recently asked you if you were a reverend first.
| RevJP wrote: | | Not to mention the act of placing oneself in a position where they feel justified or qualified to demean or 'tear down' those the Body of Christ and God has selected to be leaders of His flock... |
The Body of Christ and God selected you to be a leader of His flock? When did that happen? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Because I know for certain that at least the guy that talked about it most recently asked you if you were a reverend first. |
You are absolutely right, I was asked, my mistake. I might've overlooked that inquiry due to the rhetorical nature of the question. It was asked and immediately followed by a brow-beating, based on the assumption that was made. As I said, It was my mistake.
| FFT wrote: | | The Body of Christ and God selected you to be a leader of His flock? When did that happen? |
Where did I say this? I very clearly stated:
| Quote: | | Not to mention the act of placing oneself in a position where they feel justified or qualified to demean or 'tear down' those the Body of Christ and God has selected to be leaders of His flock... |
Heck, you even quoted it and still got it wrong. It is a shame, first you rightly correct me and then you blow your streak.... |
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