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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5881
Location: Memphis
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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I forgot you were one of them liberal Christians  |
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summertime
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | I forgot you were one of them liberal Christians |
What's a liberal christian? Does it denote automatic wrong whenever something is said? Does conservative christian automatically mean correct whenever something is said? A conservative christian could disagree with you as well. Not just a liberal one Besides, we're all a little of both. Some are more so one way than the other way. But, I'd say we all have aspects of both liberal and conservative views whether bible relate or othewise.  |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5881
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Mostly where the literal isn't as important as the message. |
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summertime
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Mostly where the literal isn't as important as the message. |
Then I guess I'm a liberal:) Sometimes the message is lost because of the literal interpetation. Having another interpretation other than a literal one only says there is another view or option to choose from what is being said. To have a literal interpretation limits a person to just one option. Jesus made points that were not meant to be taken literally, so a literal view is not the only way to go. I consider both but choose the one that best reflects Jesus' character. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem is that when the 'other' interpretation directly and definitively contradicts the actual Word, then something is amiss. |
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summertime
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | The problem is that when the 'other' interpretation directly and definitively contradicts the actual Word, then something is amiss. |
I guess I shouldn't keep saying, "That's your faith view!", but it is!! You were raised to believe that, so what can you do? When Jesus was on earth, did he contradict what was, at that time, considered the bible? Hmm. There is the bible and then there's Jesus. Which should we follow? You make think that they both agree with one another. I do not think that. The bible does not say how to interpret it: either literally or otherwise. You are taught how to do that. For you, it seems, the Word is the actual letters and sentences. For me, the Word is Jesus alone and his message. Gonna address anything else I've mentioned since we begun our conversation? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | For me, the Word is Jesus alone and his message. |
where did Jesus ever contradict anything considered scripture? He didn't. He amplified meaning, He demonstrated deeper truths, but He never contradicted it, which is what your 'interpretation' is doing. It is easy for you to say That's your faith view! for it gives you a free out. But ignoring the Word of God and what it says and superimposing what you wish it said doesn't cut it. This is not a matter of Point of View and faith, it is a matter of either accepting God's Holy Inspired Word, or rejecting it for a secular point of view.
| Quote: | | Gonna address anything else I've mentioned since we begun our conversation? |
Like what?  |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5881
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | But ignoring the Word of God and what it says and superimposing what you wish it said doesn't cut it. |
It seems to for things like "Lucifer = Serpent = Satan," "abortion is a sin" and "homosexuality is a sin." Funny, that. |
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summertime
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | For me, the Word is Jesus alone and his message. |
where did Jesus ever contradict anything considered scripture? He didn't. He amplified meaning, He demonstrated deeper truths, but He never contradicted it, which is what your 'interpretation' is doing. It is easy for you to say That's your faith view! for it gives you a free out. But ignoring the Word of God and what it says and superimposing what you wish it said doesn't cut it. This is not a matter of Point of View and faith, it is a matter of either accepting God's Holy Inspired Word, or rejecting it for a secular point of view.
| Quote: | | Gonna address anything else I've mentioned since we begun our conversation? |
Like what? |
I'll give you that one. I should have explained myself better. The words I chose to use did not carry my full thoughts over. Jesus interpreted laws differently than those who imposed the laws. This is what I meant. And yes, it is a matter of point of view. There is no one way to interrpet what is in the bible. You have yours. I have mine. Howeve, I'm sure we both have God. If people have differences on other things apart from the bible, it is no surprise difference concerning the bible exist too. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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FFT, you have a point, but why do you insist on pummeling that deceased equine in so many threads? 
Summertime, I cannot agree with you totally. Certainly I agree that you have your interpretation. But the rest is a little wonky.
Jesus did not have His own interpretation of Scripture. He is the author of said scripture and what He provided was deeper understanding of the original intent, not a different interpretation. The religious leaders of that time offered thier interpretation and Jesus showed them where they err'd and where they did not look past the surface.
At no time, no time whatsoever, did Jesus ever explain the meaning of scripture as something different than what it said. Sin? Not just a matter of the plain reading of the text, but a deeper reach into the hearts and minds - not different or contradictory from the text, just deeper into it.
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There is no one way to interrpet what is in the bible. |
True and wrong in the same sentence. True that there is no ONE way to interpret the content of the bible (or so it seems), but wrong in that there is ONE true interpretation. God is not the author of confusion and there is absolute truth. The error comes in with the agenda of men.
In this case, mankind has a specific agenda in mind - the acceptance of a lifestyle that scripture has clearly defined as sinful. The solution? Provide different 'interpretations' of said scripture so that it might seem that the desired lifestyle is acceptable in the eyes of God.
However, to do that one must dismiss scripture, add qualifications which are not in scripture, and go through all sorts of interpretive gymnastics to get to the desired conclusion.
Nothing in scripture indicates that the admonition against homosexual activity was based purely on a 'cultural' context. Too many different parts of scripture state simply that such sex is an abomination and none of them link that admonition to only specific instances.
You offer the idea of 'loving relationships' and that God is LOVE, but you have nothing to support the connection. If I murder for love is that okay? If I steal for love is that okay? If I lie for love is that okay? If I worship idols for love, is that okay? No, on all counts. Why then would one make the jump to the idea that willfully participating and an abomination, for love, makes it okay? |
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summertime
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: |
Nothing in scripture indicates that the admonition against homosexual activity was based purely on a 'cultural' context. Too many different parts of scripture state simply that such sex is an abomination and none of them link that admonition to only specific instances.
You offer the idea of 'loving relationships' and that God is LOVE, but you have nothing to support the connection. If I murder for love is that okay? If I steal for love is that okay? If I lie for love is that okay? If I worship idols for love, is that okay? No, on all counts. Why then would one make the jump to the idea that willfully participating and an abomination, for love, makes it okay? |
Let's do this, Rev: Let's start with Genesis 19. Let's talk about this one chapter and how it relates to the issue of same sex relationships. Let's try not to talk on any other text until this one is resolved and we can move to the next gay related text. Does this chapter tell you that same sex unions are unacceptable to God? If so, why and how does it convey this to you? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Summertime, I don't really get your point, but I think this topic is getting spread to too many threads. I've already answered this question in the othe thread.
But since you brought it up, tell me what this chapter has to do with relationships? Make your 'connection' for me because I really don't have a clue what you are getting at. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5881
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | FFT, you have a point, but why do you insist on pummeling that deceased equine in so many threads? |
Because strangely, no one feels like addressing it properly.
| RevJP wrote: | | But since you brought it up, tell me what this chapter has to do with relationships? |
I'm going to make a prediction: absolutely nothing, and that's precisely the point. |
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summertime
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Summertime, I don't really get your point, but I think this topic is getting spread to too many threads. I've already answered this question in the othe thread.
But since you brought it up, tell me what this chapter has to do with relationships? Make your 'connection' for me because I really don't have a clue what you are getting at. |
I don't feel like searching other threads. A brief answer will do. I'd rather not answer you until you've answered me:) |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote='RevJP']Jesus did not have His own interpretation of Scripture. He is the author of said scripture and what He provided was deeper understanding of the original intent, not a different interpretation. The religious leaders of that time offered thier interpretation and Jesus showed them where they err'd and where they did not look past the surface.
At no time, no time whatsoever, did Jesus ever explain the meaning of scripture as something different than what it said. Sin? Not just a matter of the plain reading of the text, but a deeper reach into the hearts and minds - not different or contradictory from the text, just deeper into it. [/quote]
That is the case but I ask -- then why are you just looking at the surface in these texts about homosexuality then? You see words on a page & automatically assume that's what the text means w/o further digging into what was going on at the time.
When these texts were written, the people reading these texts or writing them down had an idea of what was going on at the time around them. We don't have that luxury. We have to research.
Sometimes what we think we're reading & understanding turns out to be something different after much reflection & research into what was happening at that particular time. |
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