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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | no...the revelation is in no way a parable...nor is it written like a parable...nor are the epistles... |
I get the impression that we all have different understandings of what a parable is. It might be helpful if we all clarified what we meant by parable. As I understand it parables can have different structures, some being straight forward and simply understood and others being more complex. The structure of the Bible parables seem very straight forward and simple. The difficulty seems to arise when trying to identify the types or shadows from the true images IOW the physical representatives of the spiritual truths. This is what seems to be at the heart of this debate - What is the type/shadow/or physical thing and what is the true image/the spiritual?
Seldom seems to have made it clear that he thinks the first part of this verse in Ephesians is the true image:
| Quote: | | Husbands love your wives Eph 5:25 |
Personally I think it is the shadow/type/or physical picture of the true spiritual image which is expressed in the second half of the same verse:
| Quote: | | even as Christ also loves the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:25 |
This isn't an opposite meaning but a deeper meaning. A Husband who loves His wife is a living testimony/parable/metaphor of Christ who loves the church. Just as an adulterous women is a living testimony/parable/metaphor of the unfaithful Church. Again, it is not an opposite meaning but a deeper meaning.
As I understand it the verse about woman not speaking in the church does not have an opposite meaning but a deeper meaning. Using Seldom's words I will try to illustrate:
| theseldomscene wrote: | | in the church a woman is not to teach a man |
If he is speaking spiritually here than I would have to agree with him. But if he is speaking physically than I would say that he is describing the type/shadow and physical thing and not it's deeper meaning which is:
The church is not to teach anyone as it is written:
| Quote: | | But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any MAN(ANYONE) teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall ABIDE IN HIM. 1Jn 2:27 |
| Quote: | | But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Mar 13:11 |
For the Church (Wife) is commanded to be under obedience to Christ (her Husband) in all things as it is written:
| Quote: | | Therefore as the church is subject(under obedience) unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Eph 5:24 |
I have said it before but feel I need to say it again, men need to be very careful when they judge women, because in judging women they may just be judging themselves like the men in Joh 8:4-5 as Jesus declared in Mat 16:4. |
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holly102869
Show Poodle
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Central, Florida USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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TSS wrote:
| Quote: | | this is plain teaching...what pqaart of in the church a woman is not to teach or exercise authority over a man does any here truly not understand?... |
Because this says that man is above women. God created both in his image.
Are not men tempted by sin just as much as a woman?
Please look at the times when this was written. Times have changed. Even back then husband taught the wife and the wife taught the children. They have always been teachers of God's word. Men expect the women to raise the children in the goodness of God so why not a church. 1 mother and 1 child can be considered a church. So maybe men should be much more careful of what they truely feel and/or say.
I have to admitt this helps me to understand you. How you might ask? I really don't have to answer it do I... |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: And if God Leads you there? |
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| MakeShiftWings wrote: | You may all be saying...women cannot be pastors. I have heard many arguments on this subject and why women should not be pastors. But what if you are lead to be in that possition.
It has been many many years since the bible was writen and it has been many many years since God created man and women.
So what if you think God is leading you to become a pastor. There are woman pastors out there and you certainly cannot disregard what the Lord is telling you. |
Hi MSW,
God says clearly in Ephes 5 that women are to be pastors and leaders AND followers and non-pastors in the home of man and in the church of God.
21 Submitting yourselves one to another
in the fear of God [or in Love].
In other words, both men and women play all the roles in Love.
So just as the woman represents the Church, and whatever the Church binds on earth or in heaven is bound,
so too women in Love can run any church or home all by themselves in Love and therefore in God.
Matthew 16:
18And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Whereas no man in hate nor woman in hate shd ever run any home or church....as it says in timothy and titus.
Hope this helps.
in the Love that makes the first last and the last first, and makes com-parable visions and visionary parables,smile
atoz |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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So it says women should not teach men...
what about children?
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
If Paul considers himself as a woman giving birth to little children and women are told not to teach...uh oh..
Jer 9:20 Yet hear the word of the LORD, O ye women, and let your ear receive the word of his mouth, and teach your daughters wailing, and every one her neighbour lamentation.
and who is our neighbour?...only females?
Tts 2:1 ¶ But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
Tts 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
Tts 2:3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Tts 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, Tts 2:5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
to teach or not to teach that is the question...good things
hugs
lone |
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