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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | FFT had a valid point, up to a point. It is a matter of perspective. |
Perspective... perhaps... moral equivalency as TSS has implied... never in a million years. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| darn skippy...the u.s. is therein conquest... the insurgents are defending there area form outside murderers...it is not even close to the same...they have much more honor... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: |
The only reply here that I have seen that has nearly one ounce of intelligence in its simplicity, completeness, and lack of emotional and 'paritsan' stupidity, was from P123...: |
Don't worry; I won't let it happen again.  |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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and i am sure jp was including his own in that...  |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5846
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Do you actually think the majority of Iraqi's consider these folks 'their people'... or freedom fighters? |
Did I say they did? No. I said that to their people they are freedom fighters.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | these are not 'their people'... they are nothing more than Islamic extreemists bent on enforcing their will and their narrow interpretation of Islam on the Iraqi people. |
So you haven't seen all the people rejoicing about their actions?
| Trinity1 wrote: | The thought never even entered my mind...  You seem a little paranoid about this... |
I was preemptively preventing you from assuming stuff about me and running with it. You just assumed something else instead. Figures. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Read here....... about a man who was sent to Syria and tortured, because US government sent him there based on false information....  |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | | Read here....... about a man who was sent to Syria and tortured, because US government sent him there based on false information.... |
What most people don't seem to understand is that torturing people who are even moderately Islamic is virtually guaranteed to make them hate you as much as possible. It turns moderates into extremists.
The best examples of this were Qutb and Al-Zawahiri. Before they were tortured in Egypt, they weren't NEARLY as extreme as they were AFTER the torture. If you think about it, this isn't very surprising. If someone tortured me, I'd be pretty pissed off as well. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Do you actually think the majority of Iraqi's consider these folks 'their people'... or freedom fighters? |
Did I say they did? No. I said that to their people they are freedom fighters. |
and who is that??? Islamic Fascists who want to impose their destructive ideals on every human being in the world? An internationally recognized government? A tribe camped outside of Mosul??? Who?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | these are not 'their people'... they are nothing more than Islamic extreemists bent on enforcing their will and their narrow interpretation of Islam on the Iraqi people. |
So you haven't seen all the people rejoicing about their actions? |
I've seen some Palestinians jumping and hoop hollering about the WTC coming down... some folks in Iran got a little giddy too... but I believe the point was who these freedom fighters are... and your contention is that they represent someone... who?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | The thought never even entered my mind... You seem a little paranoid about this... |
I was preemptively preventing you from assuming stuff about me and running with it. |
Would I ever do that? 
| Quote: | | You just assumed something else instead. Figures. |
Intentionally I might add... just to keep you on your toes. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5846
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | The thought never even entered my mind... You seem a little paranoid about this... |
I was preemptively preventing you from assuming stuff about me and running with it. |
Would I ever do that?
| Quote: | | You just assumed something else instead. Figures. |
Intentionally I might add... just to keep you on your toes. |
I'm done. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6817
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Thank goodness. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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If the US continues in their policies that violate Geneva convention and human rights you will see much more of Islamic extremism, as they feel threatened the same as you. I dont buy the BS Washington pumps out via Georgie boy. I am not scared of terrorists so much that i will vote republican just to feel safe, while at the same time, when we arent looking a republican congress redefines what the rules in Geneva convention are and take away our rights to privacy. Anybody who does support that is looney......includin the guy tryin to feed the drivel to us.
We never should have entered that country of Iraq. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | | We never should have entered that country of Iraq. |
OK... then we should have:
1. Continued to allow Saddam to fire ADA at our jets patrolling a UN mandated and enforced no fly zone?
2. Allowed Saddam to continue to bride member countries of the UN security council to get the sanctions lifted... thus enabling him to continue to fund terrorism?
3. Continue to violate numerous other UN resolutions... even the last one stating that... 'severe consequences will result if he did not comply'... what good is the UN to begin with when it does not back up what it says?
4. Continue to import arms from UN Security Council member nations in violation of UN Security Council mandated sanctions against their prohibition.
5. Terrorize its own citizenry without so much as a raised eyelash by those purporting to have their citizens best interest at heart when criticizing our own military for ‘war crimes’.
6. Allow Saddam… in a post 9/11 world… to operate unfettered and get WMD (which he had demonstrated the capacity to use) to terrorist organization (which had had demonstrated to support and fund) would have been an impeachment hearing just waiting to happen with the very next domestic attack whether he was involved or not.
BTW.. that information about my idea that the WMD are now sitting in Syria was confirmed by the interrogation of an Iraqi General during one of those ‘non-productive’ interrogations. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Trinity1 wrote: | Quote: | OK... then we should have:
1. Continued to allow Saddam to fire ADA at our jets patrolling a UN mandated and enforced no fly zone?
2. Allowed Saddam to continue to bride member countries of the UN security council to get the sanctions lifted... thus enabling him to continue to fund terrorism?
3. Continue to violate numerous other UN resolutions... even the last one stating that... 'severe consequences will result if he did not comply'... what good is the UN to begin with when it does not back up what it says?
4. Continue to import arms from UN Security Council member nations in violation of UN Security Council mandated sanctions against their prohibition.
5. Terrorize its own citizenry without so much as a raised eyelash by those purporting to have their citizens best interest at heart when criticizing our own military for ‘war crimes’.
6. Allow Saddam… in a post 9/11 world… to operate unfettered and get WMD (which he had demonstrated the capacity to use) to terrorist organization (which had had demonstrated to support and fund) would have been an impeachment hearing just waiting to happen with the very next domestic attack whether he was involved or not.
BTW.. that information about my idea that the WMD are now sitting in Syria was confirmed by the interrogation of an Iraqi General during one of those ‘non-productive’ interrogations. |
Yeah a tortured man sayin what you want to hear-what a novel idea.  ...I just posted an article the other day about a a wrongly accused canadian that got whisked off to syria and was forced to confess to crimes in countries that he had never been to.
How about the other noble experienced soldiers who served-IE General Colin Powell and Senator John Mccain who do not support what you say...I am an old soldier myself...i dont want coerced testimony.  I want the truth and we are not getting that from this administartion..but believe what you will...
Anyhoo Trinity-you sound like Hannity on Fox news...no new arguments just repetition, for which i can seek the answers to without relyin on GWB and his in lockstep followers. It is obvious that what they say has infected you to the point of you thinking trible instead of using your own intellect. Im not gonna bother adressing each point you made-dont take it personal, but after hearing the neighbor's dog bark continuesly i sooner or later just dont hear him barking....and your barking is an old number sung by many dogs of war... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
1. Continued to allow Saddam to fire ADA at our jets patrolling a UN mandated and enforced no fly zone?
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You don't need ground troops to take out some anti-aircraft batteries. If he was shooting at U.S. planes, they should have hit back hard.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
2. Allowed Saddam to continue to bride member countries of the UN security council to get the sanctions lifted... thus enabling him to continue to fund terrorism?
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We already know that he had nothing to do with the Sept. 11th terrorists. If anything, he was causing problems for the Israelis, and last I checked, the lives of American troops should not be used to defend Israel. That is what Israeli troops are for.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
3. Continue to violate numerous other UN resolutions... even the last one stating that... 'severe consequences will result if he did not comply'... what good is the UN to begin with when it does not back up what it says?
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Yes, if the alternative is half-trillion dollar mess that we've got now... Enforcing U.N. resolutions is not worth that many lives and that much money.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
4. Continue to import arms from UN Security Council member nations in violation of UN Security Council mandated sanctions against their prohibition.
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Yes, if the alternative is half-trillion dollar mess that we've got now... Enforcing U.N. resolutions is not worth that many lives and that much money. Besides, Saddam was a little fish after the first Gulf war. He was not dangerous anymore.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
5. Terrorize its own citizenry without so much as a raised eyelash by those purporting to have their citizens best interest at heart when criticizing our own military for ‘war crimes’.
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Let's not forget that the Bush / Reagan administration didn't bat an eyelash when Saddam gassed his own people during the 80s.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
6. Allow Saddam… in a post 9/11 world… to operate unfettered and get WMD (which he had demonstrated the capacity to use) to terrorist organization (which had had demonstrated to support and fund) would have been an impeachment hearing just waiting to happen with the very next domestic attack whether he was involved or not.
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This is the big one. First of all, let's stop calling them WMDs. Nobody cares about chemical or biological weapons. The BIG one was nuclear weapons. I know a little bit about nuclear weapons, and it was clear to EVERYONE that there was no possible way that Saddam could have possibly built an atomic bomb given the state his country was in. He lacked the technology to make plutonium implosion bombs, and a uranium gun weapon was well beyond his resources.
The White House and Pentagon knew this. Building nukes is INCREDIBLY hard to do. Enriching uranium to make a uranium bomb takes billions of dollars. It is the most inefficient way of making a nuclear bomb known to man. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | | Anyhoo Trinity-you sound like Hannity on Fox news...no new arguments just repetition, |
I repeat the arguments simply because no one around here wants to keep this entire deal in a perspective... based on the facts. People seem to want to ignore these little details which are paramount in the justification of why we went there in the first place... then they want to complain that we are there... it makes very little sense to me.
| Quote: | | Im not gonna bother adressing each point you made-dont take it personal |
Prolly for the same reason everyone else refuses to do the same... it just might make this whole thing make sense... and we know we just can't do that... 'Bush lied'... |
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