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theseldomscene Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
   Posts: 7817
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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prov.4:14-16,6:9-10,24:,30-31, is 56:9-12, prov. 27:16-18, prov.24:33-34,
enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men. avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away. for they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall... how long wilt thou sleep o sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? yet a little sleep, a litle slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: so shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man. i went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding; and lo, it was all grown over with thorns and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall there of was broken down. all the beast of the field come to devour, yea, all the beasts in the forest. HIS watchman are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. yea they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter "come ye", say they, "i will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more adundant." the sluggard is wiser in his own deceits than seven men that can render a reason. he that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears. as a mad man who castheth firebrands, arrows, and death. then i saw, and considered it well: i looked upon it, and received instruction. ye a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: so shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth; and thy want as an armed man. |
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theseldomscene Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
   Posts: 7817
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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in THEE on LORD, do i put my trust, let me never be ashamed: deliver me in THY righteousness. bow down THINE ear to me: deliver me speedily: be THOU my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me. for THOU art my rock and my fortress; therefore for THY names sake lead me and guide me.....i have hated them that regard lying vanities: but i trust in the LORD. i will be glad and rejoice in THY mercy: for THOU hast considered my trouble; THOU hast known my soul in adversities; and THOU hast not shut me up into the hand of the enemy; THOU hast set my feet in a large room...i am like a broken vessel. for i have heard the slander of many: while they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life. but i trust in THEE, o LORD; THOU art my GOD....deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me. with hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnash upon me with their teeth. ...for they speak not peace, and they devise deceitful matters....deceit is in the heart of him that deviseth evil....the words in his mouth are iniquity and deceit, he hath left off to do good. he deviseth mischeif upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good;...every day they twist my words, and their thoughts are against me for evil.... they return at evening, they make a noise like a dog. ..as a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away...behold they belch out with their mouth's, swords are in their lips...but THOU o LORD, shalt laugh at them, THY shalt have them in derision...to the faithful, THOU hast shown THYSELF faithful...make THY face to shine upon THY servant....let me not be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave....let lying lips be put to silence; which speaketh grievous things proudly and comtemptuously against the righteous. OH HOW GREAT IS THY GOODNESS, which THOU hast laid up for them that fear THEE, that trust in THEE before the sons of men! THOU shalt hide them in the secret of THY presence from the pride of man...blessed be the LORD, for HE hath shewed me HIS marvelous kindness in a strong city. THOU art my hiding place; THOU shalt preserve me from trouble; THOU shalt compas me about with songs of deliverance. selah...
thus saith GOD the LORD, HE that created the heavens, and stretched them out; HE that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; HE that giveth breathe unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee:...I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way thou shalt go, I will guide thee with MINE eye....fear not for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name: thou art MINE! when thou passeth through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee; when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned: neither shall the flame kindle thee, for I AM the LORD your GOD, the holy one of israel, thy saviour...since thy hast been precious in MY sight, thou hast been honorable, and I have loved thee, therefore I will give men for thee, and people for your life. I, even I AM the LORD, beside ME there is no saviour...I AM the LORD, your HOLY ONE, the creator of israel, your KING....thus saith the LORD which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters....behold MY servant, whom I uphold; MINE elect, in whom MY soul delighteth;...for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. be not afraid of their faces, for I AM with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD. ..thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee; be not dismayed at their faces, ...for behold, I have made thee this day as a defenced city, and an iron pillar, and a brasen wall against the whole land, against the kings of judah, against the princes thereof, against the priest thereof, and against the people of the land. and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee, for I AM with thee, saith the LORD, to deliver thee... |
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Trinity1 Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  Posts: 3111
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: |
Based on your other posts in other threads i see you do believe at least quite a bit of what washington puts out. |
What I do believe has been detailed and chronicled here... I believe Saddam had WMD... we went in... and now... since we can't find them... people's assumption is he never had them... which we know is incorrect. I mentioned the analogy of the drug dealer and telling him we are coming to raid his house... he is not going to keep them if we tell him that... and I believe Saddam was just like the drug dealer.
| Quote: | | As for your patriotism..havent we all had people serve and were or are hurt? |
No... obviously not. When you have a country that has less than 3% of its people who have served in the last 50 years... no. Also, my patriotism has nothing to do with this war. Before all of this began I believed, and still believe this is the greatest nation in the history of the world.
| Quote: | | You think I dont have friends and family there? what does it have to do with the issue? If we deal and act on emotions instead of reasoning all we have is dead soldiers. A travesty. |
Precisely... and the ones who have died have died in vain. How is one to lead soldiers into an unethical fight? You want to tell them that. "getcha battle rattle on and lock and load... we are going to go out on another patrol/convoy/lp/op all night for no reason".
I think it is up to leaders, especially military leaders to be informed of the facts... not what some media outlet decides should be put out and what shouldn't. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
  Posts: 6772 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
What I do believe has been detailed and chronicled here... I believe Saddam had WMD... |
WMD is a pretty slimy political phrase. WMD is a catch-all for biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. In reality, the only one we REALLY care about is nuclear weapons, and Saddam DEFINITELY didn't have any of those, nor was he anywhere even close to getting them.
I wonder how many Americans were convinced that Saddam actually had nukes? I remember Rumsfeld and Cheney blitzing the morning talk shows talking about "mushroom clouds" where New York used to be. It was all lies, plain and simple. They KNEW FOR A FACT that he didn't have any nukes, but they tried to trick the American people into thinking that he did by using the term "WMD". Pretty slick, and technically correct, but also VERY slimy and manipulative.
He definitely had chemical and / or biological weapons at some point; we know this because we sold them to him!
But he NEVER had nukes. And he really didn't have any connections to Al Quaeda, so he really never posed a threat to the U.S.A. That whole reason for attacking him was pure fiction. |
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Trinity1 Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  Posts: 3111
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
What I do believe has been detailed and chronicled here... I believe Saddam had WMD... |
WMD is a pretty slimy political phrase. WMD is a catch-all for biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. In reality, the only one we REALLY care about is nuclear weapons, and Saddam DEFINITELY didn't have any of those, nor was he anywhere even close to getting them. |
We didn't think Saddam had Nukes at all... that is simply not true. We thought we would be finding the VX (Nerve Agent) and Anthrax (Biological)... but never any Nukes. I believe the only statement was that he was perusing the technology... the centrifuges… but did not posses any operational nukes.
| Quote: | | I wonder how many Americans were convinced that Saddam actually had nukes? |
I would hope none as the no one in the administration... that I can recall anyway... ever claimed he had any. Can you produce a citation where someone... anyone... in the administration ever claimed he HAD them... not developing... had them.
Second... we know that he had been perusing the technology for a long time. Going clear back to the early eighties... but the idea of the employment in large quantities of nerve agent or anthrax (and we saw how those letters with Anthrax pretty much shut down the postal system) getting into and being unleashed on this country is almost unthinkable. Having VX sprayed or employed in this country on a large scale is almost as scary as a nuke… prolly a little more as the person suffers a terrible death when every muscle in your body cramps up… |
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theseldomscene Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
   Posts: 7817
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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bush and his murdering nazi hordes killing iraqi children.......
u.s. nazi hordes...............................................iraqi babies
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
  Posts: 6772 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
We didn't think Saddam had Nukes at all... that is simply not true. We thought we would be finding the VX (Nerve Agent) and Anthrax (Biological)... but never any Nukes. I believe the only statement was that he was perusing the technology... the centrifuges… but did not posses any operational nukes.
...
I would hope none as the no one in the administration... that I can recall anyway... ever claimed he had any. Can you produce a citation where someone... anyone... in the administration ever claimed he HAD them... not developing... had them. |
Here is what Dick Cheney said on 16 Mar 2003 regarding the subject of Saddam having nuclear weapons:
| Dick wrote: | | He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. |
Trinity, do you agree that this proves that the Bush administration was definitely saying more than just "Saddam was 'pursuing' nuclear weapons"? |
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Trinity1 Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  Posts: 3111
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Trinity, do you agree that this proves that the Bush administration was definitely saying more than just "Saddam was 'pursuing' nuclear weapons"? |
It appears so. I was sitting in the middle of the desert on that date... so, I guesss I never heard it before.
What intelligence was he using to justify that statement? Any ideas? |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
  Posts: 6772 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
It appears so. I was sitting in the middle of the desert on that date... so, I guesss I never heard it before.
What intelligence was he using to justify that statement? Any ideas? |
Maybe the "yellowcake from N.iger" garbage evidence?
Maybe the "aluminum tubes" garbage evidence?
I don't know for sure. But I think we can all agree that it was bad intelligence. |
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Trinity1 Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  Posts: 3111
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
It appears so. I was sitting in the middle of the desert on that date... so, I guesss I never heard it before.
What intelligence was he using to justify that statement? Any ideas? |
Maybe the "yellowcake from N.iger" garbage evidence?
Maybe the "aluminum tubes" garbage evidence?
I don't know for sure. But I think we can all agree that it was bad intelligence. |
Bad intelligence... perhaps. However, if your 'experts' are telling you this... wouldn't you be paying attention? I mean, you listen to these 'experts' concerning the Evolution v. Creation thing... and despite the evidence, you still beleive them... don't you?  |
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RevJP Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
     Posts: 6840 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But I think we can all agree that it was bad intelligence. | You crawl through the sand in 115 degree heat for three weeks, eating dirt, bugs, and rations, take a picture from hundreds of yards away, see 'aluminum tubes' through binoc's and compare that to what you already know about WMD construction and transportation, then tell me if you could come up with better intelligence.
Not only did those on the ground believe what they saw was what they reported it to be, but the hundreds of analysts who studied the intelligence also believed it was what it was reported to be. I wouldn't say it was bad intelligence, I would offer it could have been a mistake, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. It is my opinion that it was what we said it was and it was moved, and decoys put in its place. But hey, that's only 20 years of experience with this sort of thing talking... |
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Trinity1 Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  Posts: 3111
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | But I think we can all agree that it was bad intelligence. | You crawl through the sand in 115 degree heat for three weeks, eating dirt, bugs, and rations, take a picture from hundreds of yards away, see 'aluminum tubes' through binoc's and compare that to what you already know about WMD construction and transportation, then tell me if you could come up with better intelligence. |
Why even bother when one is able to sit back and second guess... knowing that the absence of it now is all they need to hear when they make their fallacious statements about Bush lying… all the while ignoring what we and the entire world knew prior to the lead up to the war.
| Quote: | | Not only did those on the ground believe what they saw was what they reported it to be, but the hundreds of analysts who studied the intelligence also believed it was what it was reported to be. |
How can all of these people, who have dedicated their lives to the study of processes like this, ALL be wrong? These are the experts after all!!!
** I have seen that argument somewhere before ** |
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