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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6811
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | jeeprers creepers...i have been ordered to "apologize" for saying the u.s. service personnel are worse than nazi's  ...which is not exactly what i said...i said those who are involved in the war now that we know the truth are worse than nazi's and mean it...but none the less...
to show my submissiveness...i am sorry if my..."opinion's"... made anyone feel like a murderer....and i apologize for sounding so harsh(though what i said was true)....
.. ... |
I don't think that it's fair to equate U.S. ground soldiers to Nazis. Nazi soldiers did MUCH worse things than American soldiers have ever done. If the soldiers in Iraq were acting like Nazis, they would have 'solved' all of the insurgency problems a long time ago by just killing entire villages. American soldiers don't do that. In fact, they are less harsh than pretty much any other soldiers from any other army in the history of mankind.
If you want to equate people to Nazis, it should be the actual members of the administration, because they really did look away and let Saddam gas women and children. Obviously Saddam's actions were a crime against humanity, but I would argue that the way Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney facilitated Saddam's crimes should ALSO be considered a crime against humanity.
Here is a relevant quote:
| Quote: | | All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. |
Well, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney CERTAINLY helped evil to triumph when they let Saddam gas those people. In fact, instead of doing nothing, they HELPED Saddam! |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | Again... you are reaching here...  almost to the point of hilarity... no no no… it is hilarious… Do you and FFT 'hang' out or something? |
I'm not sure you've realized, but about the only thing theseldomscene and I have agreed on ever is that you're wrong. I've never been a fan of his. |
 Jeepers... don't take it personally... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
Any idea why we considered Iraq an ally at the time? Or do we just want to start making some assumptions here without zero context? |
Yes, I know exactly why the U.S. was allied with Iraq at the time. It was because the Iranian revolution had just happened, and that Iran was all of a sudden in the hands of Islamic lunatics. Sadam was a secular leader that the Reagan administration could play ball with in order to oppose Iran. So the U.S. supported Saddam in his war against Iran. This sort of makes strategic sense. |
Exactly... I always knew you were smart  .... but...
| Quote: | | What DOESN'T make sense is looking the other way when Saddam gasses women and children. That is the point where they should have cut him loose and condemned him. Some prices are too high for an alliance. |
Here is where the balancing act in the world of international politics becomes... nasty. Iraq and Iran were still at war when this happened. Actually, the provocation Saddam used for the attack was that the Kurds were aiding and abetting Iranian troops... anyway... it is still a far cry from justification... but Reagan did condemn the act... but would not allow sanctions to go through as it would cripple any influence the US thought it had over Iraq at the time... it is easy to sit back and judge in hindsight... and this is only as classic case. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I don't think that it's fair to equate U.S. ground soldiers to Nazis. Nazi soldiers did MUCH worse things than American soldiers have ever done. If the soldiers in Iraq were acting like Nazis, they would have 'solved' all of the insurgency problems a long time ago by just killing entire villages. American soldiers don't do that. In fact, they are less harsh than pretty much any other soldiers from any other army in the history of mankind. |
Thanks... someone is making sense... at least partly anyway.
| Quote: | Here is a relevant quote:
| Quote: | | All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. |
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In light of 9/11 we has a choice... If Saddma had WMD... like everyone in the world thought... and managed to get this material to a terrorist organization, and they in turn used it on us... in the United States.... I wonder... who would be clamering for his resignation... demnading his impeachment? |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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well when are you going to start making sense?...have you practiced your goose step lately?...
Last edited by theseldomscene on Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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heil...
| Quote: | | I just wish you had some clue from other than what the anti-bush media states about what really happened to get us into that place and others |
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like what the pro bush camp says ...
| Quote: | | then perhaps you would pause a moment and breathe in a deep breath of reality. |
don't count on it...
| Quote: | | However, you have demonstrated that you refuse to see or acknowledge anything, in this issue, other than your ill-informed hatred for the Bush administration (sorry, I think it might be better to say 'hatred for armed conflict'). |
well...one could easily say you are the one ill informed...but far be it from me to stoop to such a level  ..and yes...hatred of armed conflict would be better unless you wish to be a slanderer  ... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6811
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | but Reagan did condemn the act... |
How do you know this? Can you cite something that shows this to be true? |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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matt 18:21-22 then came peter to HIM, and said, LORD, how oft shall my brother sin against me and iforgive him? till seven times?
JESUS said unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until
seventy times seven.
| P1234567890 wrote: |
I don't think that it's fair to equate U.S. ground soldiers to Nazis. Nazi soldiers did MUCH worse things than American soldiers have ever done. If the soldiers in Iraq were acting like Nazis, they would have 'solved' all of the insurgency problems a long time ago by just killing entire villages. |
| tss wrote: | | well said...good and true...i retract the statment |
have you ever heard of the part of the CHRISTian faith when one realizes they have commited a wrong and repents...that you should let it go?...
i have already been ordered by my church to apologize for the statement and granted my intial apology was not a sincere one...but later in the conversation...p38 made me realize my comment was wrong and out of line...it was retracted...now here comes the accuser of the brethern...pointing it out again...giving me the big stomp down about something i have already recanted...
Last edited by theseldomscene on Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | hatred of armed conflict would be better |
I can respect that. Most of us who have been invovled in such have a similar hatred. In fact, I would hazard a guess to say that all sane caring people who have had the misfortune to fight share a similar dislike of the whole idea.
Some of us however have had the misfortune to witness first hand what happens when one doesn't fight. Some of us struggle with trying to decide which nightmare is the worst - the rememberance of killing others and sending commrades in harms way, or the remembrance of sitting on our hands and watching others die because of it.
But hey, it's all good now. Those thoughts fade quickly in the glorious loving feeling of being called a f***ing nazi by those who have absolutely no clue.
I'm out. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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please...i never called you a fooling nazi... ...and i have a small clue...btw...  |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: |
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you know jp...i was going to explain all the reasons for my hatred of armed conflict to you as a defense to your notions about what i do and do not have a clue of...but after considering the post you made with all its assumptions and hostility...
just never mind...and it will be enough for me to say...
you don't have a clue as to the faults in what you just said or the accusation you just made... |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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You know what TSS. I was going to post nearly the exact same to you and those who posted similar things in this thread.
You sir, took my remarks wholly upon yourself when I in no way directed them in that fashion.
You DID say this:
| Quote: | please...deal with them and don't give more of the sidesteps and half truths you have been given... bush lied and is a murderer...and at this point in time...any who say he is not...is one also...imo...soldier or otherwise...and any who continue to take part in this war at this point...from an e-5 and up...should be put on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity...and suffer the full punishment for their evil, murderous deeds...they are the very same as the nazi's who ran the camps...
.as many of them were able to see the evil they commit afterwards and repented...admitting they were mislead and deceived...so they have that one up on you...
.if they are still there killing in the name of bush in light of the truth...they sure should...
i pray for you also...that the truth will set you free from the slavery you have been entangled in...
you are worse than they were...as many said they were wrong...and you keep babbling you are right...when the facts say you are wrong...
.i said those who are involved in the war now that we know the truth are worse than nazi's and mean it..
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However is was P123 who said this:
| Quote: | If you want to equate people to Nazis, it should be the actual members of the administration, because they really did look away and let Saddam gas women and children. Obviously Saddam's actions were a crime against humanity, but I would argue that the way Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney facilitated Saddam's crimes should ALSO be considered a crime against humanity.
Well, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney CERTAINLY helped evil to triumph when they let Saddam gas those people. In fact, instead of doing nothing, they HELPED Saddam! |
| Quote: | | please...i never called you a fooling nazi... |
Actually, I can say most assuredly that you DID call me a nazi.
As for having a clue... Well, I understand that you and P think that what you read in the papers, hear on the news, and read in the congressional reports give you all the 'facts', but I can assure you that such is not the case. You have a decidedly lopsided view of what happened and didn't happen.
I completely agree we are in an unfortunate situation in Iraq. It should never have come to this. We could have prevented the whole problem the first time we were there. If we had simply marched on and took Saddam out then there would have been thousands upon thousands of lives saved throughout the world. A much decreased loss of life through terrorism (no 9/11), no second Iraq war costing lives of Americans and Iraqis alike, and no extermination of his own citizens (which had been happening from the time he came into power P123... so don't blame just the Bush administration for doing nothing. The Clinton administration did absolutely nothing for 8 years).
All that loss of life could have been stopped if we had been allowed to continue on to Bahgdad. But NO. Bush Sr. had to capitulate to the left side of the aisle and pull us out. The same people who pushed us to go in, the same who sat on their hands while Iraqi women and children were 'gassed', and terroists were funded and trained and sent out to kill innocent people, the same who stood up and said "YES! GO IN AND GET 'EM!" after 9/11 and then turn around and say "oh, this is bad, evil Bush getting amrerican soliders killed...."
Y'all want to equate me with the Nazi's? Equate that liberal rubbish sitting in the nation's capitol who ordered me to find information which would give them reason to go in there and devise ways to kill other people, and then turned their backs on me when I did it. Equate that bunch of dung to Nazi's, for they are the ones who stopped us from preventing this whole thing in the first place, got us back into in the second place, and then blamed everyone else for it after the fact.
You guys think you have a clue? You have no blessed idea of what the heck you are talking about. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="RevJP"]
| Quote: | | You sir, took my remarks wholly upon yourself when I in no way directed them in that fashion. |
oh really...i do believe it was me you quoted and responded to...even say you undrstood how i feel...please...that appears les than honest...
yes i did...
| Quote: | | Actually, I can say most assuredly that you DID call me a nazi. |
really...my comments said after they knew the truth....so you after the truth of the nonexistant wmd's, of the saddam al qaida connect that never was...had a party in the war?...as that was the qualifier for what i said...if not then the statement can in no way apply to you...but either way...you are out of line as i will prove with the post i make when i am done with this one....
| Quote: | | Well, I understand that you and P think that what you read in the papers, hear on the news, and read in the congressional reports give you all the 'facts', but I can assure you that such is not the case. |
no sir...my views are based on the fact bush said they were there and we would find them...they were not there and we never found them...
and the "connect of saddam and al qaida was nothing but a lie and has been shown that they knew no such thing existed when they said it!!!!you can defend that? ...
| Quote: | | I completely agree we are in an unfortunate situation in Iraq. It should never have come to this. We could have prevented the whole problem the first time we were there. If we had simply marched on and took Saddam out then there would have been thousands upon thousands of lives saved throughout the world |
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i agree...we should have done so when he was actually guilty of something...instead of making up things twelve years later...
| Quote: | | The Clinton administration did absolutely nothing for 8 years). |
wow that is soooo partisan it is almost hypocritical jp...you say clinton did nothing...then defend bush sr. for not doing enough by blaming other...like he had no choice...you do that here...
| Quote: | | All that loss of life could have been stopped if we had been allowed to continue on to Bahgdad. But NO. Bush Sr. had to capitulate to the left side of the aisle and pull us out. |
wow...see?
| Quote: | | the same who stood up and said "YES! GO IN AND GET 'EM!" after 9/11 and then turn around and say "oh, this is bad, evil Bush getting amrerican soliders killed...." |
what did 911 have to do with iraq?...NOTHING!!!as already been proven...
| Quote: | | Y'all want to equate me with the Nazi's? |
that has been shown not to be the case...my point was after we found bush's reasons to be false...and only in that order...but none the less...you are still out of line...and i will prove that in my next post when i am done with this one...
| Quote: | | Equate that liberal rubbish sitting in the nation's capitol who ordered me to find information which would give them reason to go in there and devise ways to kill other people, and then turned their backs on me when I did it. Equate that bunch of dung to Nazi's, for they are the ones who stopped us from preventing this whole thing in the first place, got us back into in the second place, and then blamed everyone else for it after the fact. |
ok...they are nazi's...
| Quote: | | You guys think you have a clue? |
what we are talking about is...never mind...this is just one big circle..
| Quote: | | You have no blessed idea of what the heck you are talking about |
.
that is how i feel about what you said to me earilier...look jp...e are talking of something tht bush said would happen...it didn't...and some of what he said(the connect)...(syria chemicals)...has been proven false and that he knew that at the time....
i would love to be able to give him the benefit of the doubt here...but if two of the things he said have been shown not to be true and he knew so at the time....why fault us for doubting the wmd's?...as they have not been found...all that as it may...you are still out of line...now i will show you in my next post...
Last edited by theseldomscene on Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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matt 18:21-22 then came peter to HIM, and said, LORD, how oft shall my brother sin against me and iforgive him? till seven times?
JESUS said unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven.
[quote="P1234567890
| Quote: | | I don't think that it's fair to equate U.S. ground soldiers to Nazis. Nazi soldiers did MUCH worse things than American soldiers have ever done. If the soldiers in Iraq were acting like Nazis, they would have 'solved' all of the insurgency problems a long time ago by just killing entire villages. |
| tss wrote: | | well said...good and true...i retract the statment |
[/quote]
have you ever heard of the part of the CHRISTian faith when one realizes they have commited a wrong and repents...that you should let it go?...
i have already been ordered by my church to apologize for the statement and granted my intial apology was not a sincere one...but later in the conversation...p38 made me realize my comment was wrong and out of line...it was retracted...now here comes the accuser of the brethern...pointing it out again...giving me the big stomp down about something i have already recanted... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Nice Post Rev... you at least tok the time to address TSS'es drivel. I think the best approach for his non-senseical, ignorant, bigotry of anything decent is to simply ignore him.
I had the mis-pleasure of listening to that Chaves fella this morning at the UN... the Bush Administration's approach... don't even dignify his characterizations of our President with a response. So, they must be reading this thread as I chose yesterday to simply ignore him after reading his ‘feigned’ apology… it was pathetic.
I feel sorry for folks like that. Anyone who has that much pent up hatred towards our soldiers has got to have some other issues in their life. I, as one who professes to be a Christian, am ashamed of his conduct. I would not be surprised to find out he is one of those folks out there protesting the funerals of soldiers... it is disgusting. |
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