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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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 Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| nakhash wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | Which is ALL well and good... it does not however explain your mention of him being sodomized... forcefully raped... which you don't seem to have any empathy for... which in turn tells me you have no problem with folks running around rapping whoever they want... breaking the laws you seem to want to see enforced... selectively in this case.... just sounds a smidge hypocritical to me.  |
This man would prevent people from having sexual relationships with those they love. If he sees fit to tell other people what their sex lives should entail, it's fitting for him to be put in a position where other people make that same decision for him.
Irony is when your own intolerance comes back to....err....bite you in the butt. |
Irony or not... your hypocrisy is almost unbelievable. |
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nakhash
House Cat
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | nakhash wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Which is ALL well and good... it does not however explain your mention of him being sodomized... forcefully raped... which you don't seem to have any empathy for... which in turn tells me you have no problem with folks running around rapping whoever they want... breaking the laws you seem to want to see enforced... selectively in this case.... just sounds a smidge hypocritical to me. |
This man would prevent people from having sexual relationships with those they love. If he sees fit to tell other people what their sex lives should entail, it's fitting for him to be put in a position where other people make that same decision for him.
Irony is when your own intolerance comes back to....err....bite you in the butt. |
Irony or not... your hypocrisy is almost unbelievable. |
I know. It must be hard for you to believe that there are people, such as myself, who don't accept the hypocrisy of militantly fundamentalist Christians as gospel truth. I mean, how else can a Christian such as yourself react when they learn that there are actually people out there who believe that we should love our fellow man, even if our fellow man makes love to his fellow man, and that not only should we tolerate that practice, but that we should allow them the same basic civil rights as God-fearing Christians who steal millions of dollars from the federal government. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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My favorite factoid about Kent Hovind is his degree from a non-accredited diploma mill... The reason why I find this interesting is that accreditation is basically a third party review of a university to see if it meets minimum standards. It seems to me like pretty much all of the famous 'creation scientists' around have degrees from these fake universities...
What is it with creationists that makes them hate the third-party review process so much? They seem to despise peer-reviewed journals, and they seem to be repelled from third-party-reviewed universities... |
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Unverified
Booted
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Kent Hovind |
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| Kty wrote: | I have been enjoying reading little parts and pieces of this man's website. I have been curious about how the average Christians view this man.
(I see no poll options so I'm just asking)
Do you consider this man as a good example of what is a 'Christian'? As a Christian, do you consider him a 'true Christian'?
You are welcome to ellaborate.  I'm very curious for the responses here. |
The guy's a complete fraud. Thats how I view him. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Kent Hovind |
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| Dr. Michael Martin wrote: |
The guy's a complete fraud. Thats how I view him. |
Yeah, I hate frauds! They give Christians a bad name! |
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Unverified
Booted
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Kent Hovind |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Dr. Michael Martin wrote: |
The guy's a complete fraud. Thats how I view him. |
Yeah, I hate frauds! They give Christians a bad name! |
Indeed they do. Good thing I'm not one. I have your Tay Sachs disease answer ready when your'e ready to look at it. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Just thought I'd dust off this old Kent Hovind thread. I discovered a review of his (fraudulent) Ph.D. thesis on line. He got his Ph.D. from a diploma mill, and his thesis is an absolute joke!
Check it out:
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/bartelt_dissertation_on_hovind_thesis.htm
And the guy runs around calling himself "Dr. Hovind" and "Dr. Dino"!
For me, the highlight of the review was this:
| Quote: | There is only one committee member, a Dr. Wayne Knight. Normally, a thesis must pass muster with 3-5 committee members, all of whom make suggestions and ultimately "sign off" on the thesis. Even the undergraduate honors theses at my institution require the signatures of two faculty members.
Misspellings are rampant. A careful, knowledgeable editor/adviser would never allow a student to get away with misspelling "Caanan", "Voltair", "Nyles Eldridge", Madelyn Murray "O'Hare" (just like the airport), "Shintu" (the Japanese religion), "peersuaded", "centrifical" (force!!!), "aught" (to!), "disippated", "immerged" (from the slime), or "epic" (as in geological!). "It's" is used as a possessive pronoun. There are several non sentences. This is especially interesting since the course catalog of PU offers courses like "Refresher English" and "Mechanics of Composition".
THE THESIS HAS NO TITLE. There are no references or footnotes. A few partial citations are included in the body of the thesis, but they are not in standard form, and are incomplete. In at least two places (pp 65-66) the citation simply notes that there is a book title to be added. This has no place in a final version.
The single illustration, the electromagnetic spectrum, is cut out of a science textbook and taped on; it does not fit the page. Additionally, there are substantial formatting errors typical of a draft, but not a final, version. The final version is printed on a dot-matrix printer, an absolute no-no, even in 1991.
The Ph.D. is in "Christian Education", not "Education" - that's what the title page says. The coursework for the two degrees is substantially different, but as late as 1-10-00, Hovind still seems loath to advertising the "Christian" aspect of his degree. Curious that a Christian would leave that part out! |
Wow, Hovind is a pretty serious example of academic fraud! Still, at least his 'university' made him write a 'thesis' rather than just mailing him his diploma for $25; it could have been worse...
All of this has inspired an interesting question: Are there any prominent Young Earth Creationists who are NOT dishonest scumbag frauds? This is not a joke; I'm asking this seriously. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1691
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Actually, there is one - Kurt Wise. Even Dawkins has nice things to say about him. Here's Dawkins post about him - a source you would not expect to call him "honest":
http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,115,Sadly-an-Honest-Creationist,Richard-Dawkins,page2#107569
But I'd say there's a reason creation scientists in general do not study within their field of study at mainstream universities - and the reason is simple: the ones that have studied WITHIN THE FIELD OF STUDY at a mainstream university - they are no longer creation scientists once they have looked at all the facts and studied.
I realize this is painful for many. It was painful when I became aware of it. But there it is. Time to look for other places to bolster our faith rather than make sophomoric jabs at science (ie: things we haven't studied and really don't know about).
And play the creationist charade for what? Just an attempt to keep scripture literal and unerring, when we have clearly been shown otherwise? Scientists LOVE IT when they found out they are wrong about things, they embrace it - it means they are moving forward.
My experience with creationists is quite the opposite. And again I'll say that I think creationists do the greatest harm to the faith today. It is not helpful to deny the work of science.
I always invite people to spend time at answersingenesis.com and also talkorigins.org - spend several hours on those websites. You can go as deep into the info as you want - but read both sides. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for this reference, Admin. I thought that it was a very interesting little article, which basically sums up my experiences with many Young Earth Creationists... It really doesn't matter what scientific evidence is shown to them because they already made up their minds long ago.
| admin wrote: |
I realize this is painful for many. It was painful when I became aware of it. But there it is. Time to look for other places to bolster our faith rather than make sophomoric jabs at science (ie: things we haven't studied and really don't know about).
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I think that this is a fantastic, open-minded attitude on your part. Another way of saying what you said here is that one must above all be dedicated to the facts, regardless of how uncomfortable they may be. In fact, this is one of the main cornerstones of science, and you being able to accept the truth (even though it was painful) shows that you're more of a scientist than you think!
One can easily rephrase this in a Christian context as well: A Christian must be dedicated to the truth, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be. So this attitude is both scientific AND Christian, and I think that all Christians who can fight through false dogma should be rightfully proud, because it isn't an easy thing to do.
An unfortunate corollary of all of this for creationists is that YEC beliefs are neither scientific NOR Christian...
| admin wrote: |
And play the creationist charade for what? Just an attempt to keep scripture literal and unerring, when we have clearly been shown otherwise? Scientists LOVE IT when they found out they are wrong about things, they embrace it - it means they are moving forward.
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Yes, exactly! Every scientific theory (legitimately) proven false is progress, not for creationists, but for science!
| admin wrote: |
My experience with creationists is quite the opposite. And again I'll say that I think creationists do the greatest harm to the faith today. It is not helpful to deny the work of science.
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I agree. I think that Christians should USE science. It is very powerful and could be used as an EXCELLENT tool to help explore their faith to much, much deeper depths. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Just thought I'd dust off this old Kent Hovind thread. I discovered a review of his (fraudulent) Ph.D. thesis on line. He got his Ph.D. from a diploma mill, and his thesis is an absolute joke!
.......
Wow, Hovind is a pretty serious example of academic fraud! Still, at least his 'university' made him write a 'thesis' rather than just mailing him his diploma for $25; it could have been worse...
All of this has inspired an interesting question: Are there any prominent Young Earth Creationists who are NOT dishonest scumbag frauds? This is not a joke; I'm asking this seriously. |
atoz: Serious answer coming up!smile
Any person, from whatever field, who hates or disrespects himsefl as a liar must tell more lies bout his lies when asked about his prior lies.
So my hatred for liars makes them lie more and so makes more liars when I ask them if they are liars: for why shd they admit their lies when they know that i am gonna hate and diss them as lairs and for their past lies MORE THAN ever loving & respecting them for telling me the TRUTH about their lies?
My hatred for liars also means that any time have the truth about anything, I MUST refuse to admit any other truth or any MORE truth since that wd make me a liar and look as though i were a liar!
So Hate of myself as a liar prevents ne from learning or wanting to learn MORE truth!
So my hatred for myself as a liar not only makes others who hate themselves into bigger liars but then I also RE-hate them for being liars based on my own hatred of liars!
sigh
More to be added later.
Comments?
with The Truth of Love and R that pre-vents the Dishonesty of Hatred from making liars who lie about their lying, and helps them to tell the truth about their lies, and to express all truth IN The Truth of Love,
Ephesians 4:15-16
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Thanks a lot for this reference, Admin. I thought that it was a very interesting little article, which basically sums up my experiences with many Young Earth Creationists... It really doesn't matter what scientific evidence is shown to them because they already made up their minds long ago.
| admin wrote: |
I realize this is painful for many. It was painful when I became aware of it. But there it is. Time to look for other places to bolster our faith rather than make sophomoric jabs at science (ie: things we haven't studied and really don't know about).
|
I think that this is a fantastic, open-minded attitude on your part.[atoz' bold] Another way of saying what you said here is that one must above all be dedicated to the facts, regardless of how uncomfortable they may be. In fact, this is one of the main cornerstones of science, and you being able to accept the truth (even though it was painful) shows that you're more of a scientist than you think!
One can easily rephrase this in a Christian context as well: A Christian must be dedicated to the truth, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be. So this attitude is both scientific AND Christian, and I think that all Christians who can fight through false dogma should be rightfully proud, because it isn't an easy thing to do.[atoz' bold]
An unfortunate corollary of all of this for creationists is that YEC beliefs are neither scientific NOR Christian...
| admin wrote: |
And play the creationist charade for what? Just an attempt to keep scripture literal and unerring, when we have clearly been shown otherwise? Scientists LOVE IT when they found out they are wrong about things, they embrace it - it means they are moving forward.
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Yes, exactly! Every scientific theory (legitimately) proven false is progress, not for creationists, but for science!
| admin wrote: |
My experience with creationists is quite the opposite. And again I'll say that I think creationists do the greatest harm to the faith today. It is not helpful to deny the work of science.
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I agree. I think that Christians should USE science. It is very powerful and could be used as an EXCELLENT tool to help explore their faith to much, much deeper depths. |
atoz: And this was recent!
Hmmmm exciting!smile
Just shows you can go all the way with that attitude thing!smile
More later.
with all Love and Respect,
atoz |
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The Barbarian
Hamster
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | All of this has inspired an interesting question: Are there any prominent Young Earth Creationists who are NOT dishonest scumbag frauds? This is not a joke; I'm asking this seriously. |
Kurt Wise comes to mind. He seems scrupulously honest. But then, he doesn't make a living selling creationist tracts to the gullible. He's a genuine scientist. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| The Barbarian wrote: | | Quote: | | All of this has inspired an interesting question: Are there any prominent Young Earth Creationists who are NOT dishonest scumbag frauds? This is not a joke; I'm asking this seriously. |
Kurt Wise comes to mind. He seems scrupulously honest. But then, he doesn't make a living selling creationist tracts to the gullible. He's a genuine scientist. |
Not really. He willingly admits that no amount of scientific evidence could convince him of evolution and dissuade him from creationism... This is so unscientific that it leaves it completely open to debate whether or not he is a scientist.
He also doesn't believe in the scientific statement that strong claims require strong evidence.
Putting on a lab coat and holding a test tube isn't enough; to be called a scientist, you have to accept the methodologies of science, and Kurt Wise clearly doesn't do that. |
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The Barbarian
Hamster
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Wise merely says that his interpretation of Scripture overrides the evidence as far as he is concerened. This is entirely honest and straightforward.
I don't see how he reconciles the two, but I give him credit for his honesty.
I think Harold Coffin would also qualify. In the Arkansas evolution trial, he testified that if it were not for his understanding of Scripture, the evidence would lead him to think the world was very old. |
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