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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 720
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 Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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SS wrote,
God placed the 10 commandments so HIGH, in His estimation, that He allowed No Man to write them
SS, I am confused by your statement here seeing Moses wrote out the 10 commandments on a second tablet, after having broke the first ones. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | SS wrote,
God placed the 10 commandments so HIGH, in His estimation, that He allowed No Man to write them
SS, I am confused by your statement here seeing Moses wrote out the 10 commandments on a second tablet, after having broke the first ones. |
The Bible says God wrote them out a 2nd time also.
Moses never wrote a single one of the Big 10.
Moses merely carried the stone tablets.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | The Bible says God wrote them out a 2nd time also.
Moses never wrote a single one of the Big 10.
Moses merely carried the stone tablets. |
Exodus 34:27. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."
28. So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. (NASB, 1995) |
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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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SS,
I see I am confused. I had thought that because of Exodus 34:27-28, but when I compare the other scriptures it does say God did write the second, Ex 34:1; Deut 10:2. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | SS,
I see I am confused. I had thought that because of Exodus 34:27-28, but when I compare the other scriptures it does say God did write the second, Ex 34:1; Deut 10:2. |
No, you were not confused; Moses was confused. His memory, like the memory of the rest of us, is sometimes faulty. His recollection of the events, as he was speaking to the people in Deut. 10, was incorrect as is proven by the account in Exodus posted above.
Deut. 10:1. "At that time the LORD said to me, 'Cut out for yourself two tablets of stone like the former ones, and come up to Me on the mountain, and make an ark of wood for yourself.
2. 'I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered, and you shall put them in the ark.'
3. "So I made an ark of acacia wood and cut out two tablets of stone like the former ones, and went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hand.
4. "He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me.
5. "Then I turned and came down from the mountain and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, as the LORD commanded me." (NASB, 1995) |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | SS,
I see I am confused. I had thought that because of Exodus 34:27-28, but when I compare the other scriptures it does say God did write the second, Ex 34:1; Deut 10:2. |
You're doing just fine.
By looking elsewhere in the Bible, you can always find answers, as God wrote the Bible to interpret itself.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | james wrote: | SS,
I see I am confused. I had thought that because of Exodus 34:27-28, but when I compare the other scriptures it does say God did write the second, Ex 34:1; Deut 10:2. |
You're doing just fine.
By looking elsewhere in the Bible, you can always find answers, as God wrote the Bible to interpret itself. |
Ex. 34:1. Now the LORD said to Moses, "Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered.
Ex. 34:27. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."
28. So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
The LORD told Moses that he (the LORD) would write on the tablets, but when the time came for Him to do so, rather them actually write them with His own hand, he used the hand of Moses.
The Ten Commandments were given to the Jews, not the gentiles, and not to the Church. No Christian is under the Ten Commandments or any other portion of the Law; they are under grace and the Law, in spirit but not the letter, is fulfilled in them as they walk in the Spirit. And, of course, that is why we do not find the Sabbath being kept by Christians in the New Testament or in the early church. Christians, unlike the Jews, are strengthened by the Holy Spirit and have no need to take a day off from work every week. The large majority of Christians, both among the laity and the clergy and the scholars, throughout the history of the Church, have understood this, but some have been confused. |
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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig2uguys, what is your explanation for Exodus 34:1 where Gods says He will write them. This seems to back up Duet 10:2. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | | Craig2uguys, what is your explanation for Exodus 34:1 where Gods says He will write them. This seems to back up Duet 10:2. |
See my post above (I posted it while you were posting your question). |
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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Craig2uguys,
Your explanation seems to run with the rest of scripture in that I believe God wrote all of scripture using men as scribes. God is claiming He wrote the 10 commandments but Moses was the scribe.
Am I understanding you correctly ?? |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | Craig2uguys,
Your explanation seems to run with the rest of scripture in that I believe God wrote all of scripture using men as scribes. God is claiming He wrote the 10 commandments but Moses was the scribe.
Am I understanding you correctly ?? |
Not completely. I am simply setting forth the historical events regarding the writing of the Ten Commandments as this history is found in Exodus and Deuteronomy. God engraved them with His own hand the first time; Moses engraved them with his own hand the second time as God used his (the hand of Moses) to write them.
We are getting very far away from the opening post where the subject is the “establishment” of the Law. The Christian gospel establishes the Law in that the Law, in spirit but not the letter, is fulfilled in Christians as they walk in the Spirit. The Christian is not under the Law, in any form whatsoever; he is under grace. Therefore, he does not strive to keep the Ten Commandments or any other part of the Law; he walks in the Spirit by faith; and the Law, in spirit but not the letter, is thereby fulfilled in his life. |
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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| There is nothing you have stated Craig that I myself do not also believe. Sometimes with doctrine I will question as to get a clear view of how others believe, so to better understand them, as to where they are coming from. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | | There is nothing you have stated Craig that I myself do not also believe. Sometimes with doctrine I will question as to get a clear view of how others believe, so to better understand them, as to where they are coming from. |
May God abundantly bless you for your pursuit of the truth and a clear understanding of what others believe. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig2uguys wrote: | The Ten Commandments were given to the Jews, not the gentiles, and not to the Church.
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Here we go again 
The 10 commandments were always in heaven...before mankind was ever created.
There is no such thing as sin...without the Law pointing it out.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression. (sin)
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
The Bible tells us that satan sinned in heaven.
How could that be, if there was no law to point out where he was wrong ?
Same with Adam & Eve....if there was no law, they could not have committed any sin.
| Quote: |
No Christian is under the Ten Commandments or any other portion of the Law; they are under grace and the Law, in spirit but not the letter, is fulfilled in them as they walk in the Spirit. |
WHY then, did Jesus Christ keep saying to people, to keep the commandments ?
| Quote: | | And, of course, that is why we do not find the Sabbath being kept by Christians in the New Testament or in the early church. |
Every disciple of Jesus Christ's, kept the 7th day sabbath !
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
| Quote: | | Christians, unlike the Jews, are strengthened by the Holy Spirit and have no need to take a day off from work every week. |
Then you need to understand the work of the Holy Spirit, my friend !
The Holy Spirit is given in full measure to those who keep God's commandments.....
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
This is the 1st step, then....the Holy Spirit....
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
| Quote: | | The large majority of Christians, both among the laity and the clergy and the scholars, throughout the history of the Church, have understood this, but some have been confused. [/b][/color] |
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Craig2uguys wrote: | The Ten Commandments were given to the Jews, not the gentiles, and not to the Church.
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Here we go again
The 10 commandments were always in heaven...before mankind was ever created. |
Are you perhaps confusing the writings of Ellen G. White with the Holy Scriptures?
| Silver Surfer wrote: | There is no such thing as sin...without the Law pointing it out.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression. (sin)
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. |
True but irrelevant to my comments and the rest of the thread.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | The Bible tells us that satan sinned in heaven.
How could that be, if there was no law to point out where he was wrong ?
Same with Adam & Eve....if there was no law, they could not have committed any sin. |
The Law was given long after Adam and Eve had died. They sinned when they disobeyed the instructions that God gave exclusively to them.
| Silver Surfer wrote: |
| Quote: |
No Christian is under the Ten Commandments or any other portion of the Law; they are under grace and the Law, in spirit but not the letter, is fulfilled in them as they walk in the Spirit. |
WHY then, did Jesus Christ keep saying to people, to keep the commandments ? |
Jesus never spoke one word to a Christian; he spoke almost exclusively to Jews and he never told a gentile to keep the commandments.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Quote: | | And, of course, that is why we do not find the Sabbath being kept by Christians in the New Testament or in the early church. |
Every disciple of Jesus Christ's, kept the 7th day sabbath !
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, |
All of the disciples of Jesus were Jews; none of them were Christians!
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Quote: | | Christians, unlike the Jews, are strengthened by the Holy Spirit and have no need to take a day off from work every week. |
Then you need to understand the work of the Holy Spirit, my friend !
The Holy Spirit is given in full measure to those who keep God's commandments.....
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
This is the 1st step, then....the Holy Spirit....
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. |
Let’s not confuse the Old Testament commandments with Jesus’ commandments.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Quote: | | The large majority of Christians, both among the laity and the clergy and the scholars, throughout the history of the Church, have understood this, but some have been confused. [/b][/color] |
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
In Matt. 7:12 Jesus was not speaking to Christians, but to unconverted Jews who were still very confused regarding the teachings of Jesus and how they related to the Old Testament Scriptures, and He is telling them here to treat others in the same manner that they like to be treated for in doing so they will be obeying the spirit (not the letter) of the Law and the Prophets.
Matt. 7:13-14 are irrelevant to my comments and the rest of the thread. |
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