I Need Help!

palebane · Not So Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 5

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I don't know if posting it here will get the best response but it does deal directly with Jehovah's Witnesses. I notice in the Watchtowers they mention that on occasion people fall into the "trap" of "independent thinking" and this is often associated with pride and a misunderstanding of God.

Also just as frequently it mentions that God progressively reveals truths to his followers. And I've noticed they usually refer to Proverbs 4:18 where it says "18 But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established" This is, I believe, where they get their "new light" theory.

On both of these topics I need help on showing from the Bible how God, not only does not progressively reveal truth, but also how independent thinking is not something to be considered evil.

I know in my heart and with reasoning that the demonization of free thought and the idea that truth is revealed in steps must be incorrect but I am looking for a, hopefully existent, sound scriptural piece that will allow me to back up my reasoning.

Thanks in advance!
ryan[/i]

lone-traveler · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:22 am Post subject:

Hello Palebane,
Nice to meet you.

Let's begin with one question at a time ok?

Do you believe that man should lean on their own understandings and interpretations?

God Bless
Lone

palebane · Not So Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 5

Our own understandings and interpretations of what? The Bible, God... life?

lone-traveler · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:46 am Post subject:

Yes,
any or all of it.
Peace
Lone

palebane · Not So Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 5

I believe its a combination of coming into the understanding of God's wisdom and your own understanding of life. How can God's wisdom be relevant to you if you can't apply it to things you've personally experienced and your own outlook? There is no education if there is no previous independent thoughts to contrast the new wisdom with. Since God doesn't speak anymore, and since the Bible can't be agreed upon by anyone, then it must be something of a personal understanding coupled with knowledge of God.

lone-traveler · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:14 am Post subject:

Palebane,
God does speak through His very word if one chooses to listen.
Maybe not everyone agrees on what God says, But He agrees with what He says.
We all begin with what we think. And as we read more of what God says, then we no longer think what we think, we Know what He Says.

So first I would agree with you, that we come with knowledge that we have in this world, and when we take God's word we apply it to our knowledge and see if it matches up. see if it agrees.
If it doesn't then something has to go.
Either ones thinking, or God's knowing.
This you must decide for yourself.

God Bless
Lone

P1234567890 · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: Re: I Need Help!

FFT · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: Re: I Need Help!

palebane · Not So Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 5

Okay, for starters, its a pretty silly comment to say that God agrees with what God said. Secondly, if I understand you correctly you are saying that at some point we are all able to eliminate our thinking because we contrast what we think with what God knows.

“So first I would agree with you, that we come with knowledge that we have in this world, and when we take God's word we apply it to our knowledge and see if it matches up. see if it agrees.
If it doesn't then something has to go.
Either ones thinking, or God's knowing. “

So this means that we will all think exactly the same. We will all be God.

This doesn't answer my questions! What does “God say” or what does the Bible say about independent thought and the progressive revealing of truth?

palebane · Not So Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 5

MoJo · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:37 am Post subject:

Hi palebane. welcome to the board. Very Happy

Can't build a house from the roof down. We all start with the foundation and build. That works with any knowledge.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, **he will guide you into all truth:** for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and **ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things**, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Psa 119:171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast **taught me** thy statutes.

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, [even] a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise [men] shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent [men] shall be hid

Isa 54:13 And all thy children [shall be] taught of the LORD; and great [shall be] the peace of thy children.

Mar 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Luk 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

I wrote this post and then saw that you had clarified your question. The truth doesn't change, but our understanding and interpretation of it does as we are taught by the Spirit. IOW, more is revealed to us as we grow.

So I really don't understand what you are asking. Eveything is complete in Jesus, but that doesn't mean we have complete understanding of it.

Can you explain to me more clearly what you mean by this independent thinking that is the buzz of JW's. what exactly are they saying about it?

Very Happy

Zathrus · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject:

palebane:

P1234567890 · Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: Re: I Need Help!

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:19 am Post subject:

P1234567890, that's a great point.
This is a great example of how those who sincerely want to know God better and be closer to Him are often more vulnerable than those who don't believe. Countless sincere people of faith have been duped, and their lives made into a mess because they believed some religious leader who said he or she'd been appointed by God to be their spiritual authority, and promised them the closer walk with God they longed for if they'd blindly and unquestioningly believe everything the leader said and obeyed everything the leader instructed them to do.

This situation is rampant not only in groups considered "on the fringe" like JW's, but in countless church groups considered more mainstream too. I'm thankful I wised up after quite a few years and realized surrendering my will and intellect to some "spiritual leadership" was not only never going to get me that closer walk with God or that ministry of my own that I thought I was called to, it was going to only result in my being confused, frustrated, and chasing a carrot on a stick the rest of my life.

FFT · Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: