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PetriFB
Big Hamster
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 95
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 Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: The assumed initial phases of the universe |
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http://www.koti.phnet.fi/elohim/theory_of_evolution1
As we activate our examination, it is good to start from the beginning of the universe. We noted already previously that the most common theory is that the universe began by itself, and after it evolved life on Earth started to appear little by little. This materialist view therefore entails that time and material are the only prerequisites for making anything possible – it doesn't even consider the possibility of a Creator.
However, it is essential that the universe must have a beginning and that it can't last forever and be infinitely old. Even the theories of different scientists indicate this. When they speak about the big bang, the birth of the galaxies, stars, the solar system and the Earth, they presume that they must have had their beginnings. They are aware of the fact that they haven't always been around, even though they don't believe in a special creation. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6067
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| PetriFB wrote: | | However, it is essential that the universe must have a beginning and that it can't last forever and be infinitely old. |
Why? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: Re: The assumed initial phases of the universe |
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| PetriFB wrote: | This materialist view therefore entails that time and material are the only prerequisites for making anything possible – it doesn't even consider the possibility of a Creator.
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This is not true; science considers all possibilities that have enough evidence making them worth exploring. It just so happens that there isn't enough evidence for a Creator to even come up with any kind of workable, testable hypothesis.
| PetriFB wrote: |
However, it is essential that the universe must have a beginning and that it can't last forever and be infinitely old.
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You're sort of wrong on this first point, and you're definitely wrong on the second point. Everyone sort of considers the Big Bang to be the start of the universe, but there is a bunch of research going on into what caused (if you can call it that) the Big Bang. As for being infinitely old, the scientific consensus is that the universe will continue to expand and that it will continue to do so infinitely, so it will become infinitely old.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PetriFB
Big Hamster
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Science believes, that macrocosm is not everlasting.
Science says that through initial explosion all has been born.
Bible says creating is an answer.
God created the macrocosm with its stars.
Explosion destroys all, and not produce the life.
Wisdomof a man is in this large foolishness.
Man produces fictions and adults fairy tales.
Rhythm of it is evil root.
Science says that all has condensed,
to space of size of the pin.
Belief to scientific wisdom,
leadperson to large fun.
there will be demanded much believe,
that all has born from so small.
Many futile books will be prepared,
when is believed from this kind of fairy tales.
Science measures time of matters.
Inaccuracies in those is a lot.
They are work of futility.
Faults is in there unread amount.
Accident does not produce life.
It uses language of a lie.
It do not build seeing eyes.
It don't buils hearing ears . |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: |
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This is a new one; I don't think anyone's ever written a poem here before...
| PetriFB wrote: | Science believes, that macrocosm is not everlasting.
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Not true. Science says the opposite; the universe will continue to expand forever.
| PetriFB wrote: |
Science says that through initial explosion all has been born.
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A gross hyper-oversimplification, but this is sort of right.
| PetriFB wrote: |
Explosion destroys all, and not produce the life.
Wisdomof a man is in this large foolishness.
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Are you saying that science claims that life evolved DURING the actual 'explosion' phase of the Big Bang?
| PetriFB wrote: |
Man produces fictions and adults fairy tales.
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Are you talking about religion here?
| PetriFB wrote: |
Science says that all has condensed,
to space of size of the pin.
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All has condensed? What are you talking about?
| PetriFB wrote: |
there will be demanded much believe,
that all has born from so small.
Many futile books will be prepared,
when is believed from this kind of fairy tales.
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You think that the Big Bang theory is a fairy tale, and that the Bible is fact??? Turn around 180 degrees to find the truth.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PetriFB
Big Hamster
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | This is a new one; I don't think anyone's ever written a poem here before...
| PetriFB wrote: | Science believes, that macrocosm is not everlasting.
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Not true. Science says the opposite; the universe will continue to expand forever.
| PetriFB wrote: |
Science says that through initial explosion all has been born.
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A gross hyper-oversimplification, but this is sort of right.
| PetriFB wrote: |
Explosion destroys all, and not produce the life.
Wisdomof a man is in this large foolishness.
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Are you saying that science claims that life evolved DURING the actual 'explosion' phase of the Big Bang?
| PetriFB wrote: |
Man produces fictions and adults fairy tales.
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Are you talking about religion here?
| PetriFB wrote: |
Science says that all has condensed,
to space of size of the pin.
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All has condensed? What are you talking about?
| PetriFB wrote: |
there will be demanded much believe,
that all has born from so small.
Many futile books will be prepared,
when is believed from this kind of fairy tales.
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You think that the Big Bang theory is a fairy tale, and that the Bible is fact??? Turn around 180 degrees to find the truth. |
Initially poem has been written for my native tongue Finnish..... it is my poem ...
I don't have to turn around, because God has already saved me ...... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PetriFB wrote: |
I don't have to turn around, because God has already saved me ...... |
I am not debating that. I am, however, debating your analysis on the beginnings of the universe.
Scientists didn't just make up the Big Bang story. It is not a 'fairy tale' as you suggest. They looked at the physical evidence, and tried to explain it. There are VERY good reasons for thinking it to be true.
The most obvious mistake that you are making is saying that science thinks that the universe will end. This simply is not true. Scientists believe the opposite; there will be no 'Big Crunch'.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PetriFB
Big Hamster
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | PetriFB wrote: |
I don't have to turn around, because God has already saved me ...... |
I am not debating that. I am, however, debating your analysis on the beginnings of the universe.
Scientists didn't just make up the Big Bang story. It is not a 'fairy tale' as you suggest. They looked at the physical evidence, and tried to explain it. There are VERY good reasons for thinking it to be true.
The most obvious mistake that you are making is saying that science thinks that the universe will end. This simply is not true. Scientists believe the opposite; there will be no 'Big Crunch'. |
Yes, but they are only thinking and assuming that, it is not reliable information, but assumption......
I prefer choose the truth than assumption.......
Assumptions can be 100 times wrong or 1000 times or more .... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| PetriFB wrote: |
Yes, but they are only thinking and assuming that, it is not reliable information, but assumption......
I prefer choose the truth than assumption.......
Assumptions can be 100 times wrong or 1000 times or more .... |
Science is not assumption. Science is based on physical evidence. Faith, on the other hand, is 100% assumption. You've got things exactly backwards.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PetriFB
Big Hamster
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | PetriFB wrote: |
Yes, but they are only thinking and assuming that, it is not reliable information, but assumption......
I prefer choose the truth than assumption.......
Assumptions can be 100 times wrong or 1000 times or more .... |
Science is not assumption. Science is based on physical evidence. Faith, on the other hand, is 100% assumption. You've got things exactly backwards. |
Science is assumption in there that how the macrocosm has born and how life has born ........Science hasn't 100% information about it, but only thinking and assumptions ..... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| PetriFB wrote: |
Science is assumption in there that how the macrocosm has born and how life has born ........Science hasn't 100% information about it, but only thinking and assumptions ..... |
No, you're wrong. Science has exactly one assumption, namely that our observations about the universe tell us something about reality. Other than that, there are no assumptions.
All scientific reasoning is based on observations and logical inference, both of which are sound.
Science does not 'assume' that the universe was born. It knows that the universe was born, and this knowledge is based on observations and logical inference, NOT on assumption.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PetriFB
Big Hamster
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | PetriFB wrote: |
Science is assumption in there that how the macrocosm has born and how life has born ........Science hasn't 100% information about it, but only thinking and assumptions ..... |
No, you're wrong. Science has exactly one assumption, namely that our observations about the universe tell us something about reality. Other than that, there are no assumptions.
All scientific reasoning is based on observations and logical inference, both of which are sound.
Science does not 'assume' that the universe was born. It knows that the universe was born, and this knowledge is based on observations and logical inference, NOT on assumption. |
Science don't know how it has born, but makes assumptions on it .........and science don't know orogin of a man, but makes assumptions on it ........ |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PetriFB wrote: |
Science don't know how it has born, but makes assumptions on it .........and science don't know orogin of a man, but makes assumptions on it ........ |
Science knows for a fact that the Big Bang happened. There is plenty of physical evidence which proves it. We also know for a fact that Humans evolved from lower primates. There is even more evidence proving this than there is for the Big Bang. These things are not debatable.
If you're arguing that science does not know that abiogenesis is a fact, then I would agree with you. It is a hypothesis on the cutting edge of human knowledge.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Good night... I do need to find time to get back here. 
| Quote: | | Science knows for a fact that the Big Bang happened. |
Yup... this year. Give it a few more and the 'facts' will change... again... just as the old 'facts' changed. Come on P... this is a mantra. This is not anything close to a fact. It fails miserabley to answer any of the anamolies we see out there. (ie. the wound up - too tightly- galaxies)
| Quote: | | We also know for a fact that Humans evolved from lower primates. There is even more evidence proving this than there is for the Big Bang. These things are not debatable. |
And that line too changes every year. It always seems to do with something about more and more discoveries not fitting the pardighm... along with of course 'all' (a pool table full) of those fossils drawing a clear line of ascent. Mantra again.
| Quote: | | If you're arguing that science does not know that abiogenesis is a fact, then I would agree with you. |
Right. It is impossible. If it is possible... then lets see the mechanism that would allow for this.
| Quote: | | It is a hypothesis on the cutting edge of human knowledge. |
No... it is conjecture based on SCIENCE fiction with no basis in any of the evidence. It is not on the cutting edge of anything. All of the evidence has demonstrated that it can not happen... ever.
I'll try to be a better boy for ya P... I have been REALLY SUPER DUPER OUT OF CONTROL BUSY the last few weeks. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Yup... this year. Give it a few more and the 'facts' will change... again... just as the old 'facts' changed. Come on P... this is a mantra. This is not anything close to a fact. It fails miserabley to answer any of the anamolies we see out there. (ie. the wound up - too tightly- galaxies)
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Mantra??? When have scientists ever flip-flopped on the Big Bang? What new evidence could possibly make red shift and cosmic background radiation go away? The Big Bang is fact, and it's here to stay.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | We also know for a fact that Humans evolved from lower primates. There is even more evidence proving this than there is for the Big Bang. These things are not debatable. |
And that line too changes every year. It always seems to do with something about more and more discoveries not fitting the pardighm... along with of course 'all' (a pool table full) of those fossils drawing a clear line of ascent. Mantra again.
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I don't know what theory of evolution YOU'RE talking about, but the one I'M talking about hasn't changed much since the time of Darwin. What are you going on about, 'changes every year'???
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Right. It is impossible. If it is possible... then lets see the mechanism that would allow for this.
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Nobody knows the exact mechanism. Science is working on it. But it certainly isn't IMPOSSIBLE. That's a VERY strong word, and there has never been even a remotely convincing argument that this is the case.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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