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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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 Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | He didn't even qualify as a sin sacrifice. Leviticus (if I recall correctly) is quite clear on what animals can be offered, and humans are not among them. |
Oh, I see... and Isaac (son of Abraham) was... what? The family pet? I think you are missing this 'covenant' thing altogether. |
So we can pick and choose what God's rules for us are, then? Or, have we found another contradiction in the bible? Or, perhaps God can ask us to do things which are contrary to his nature as priorly established?
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1127
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject: reply |
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Ana, I just have to say this: You speak nonsense.
May God bless, golfjack |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | [So we can pick and choose what God's rules for us are, then? Or, have we found another contradiction in the bible? Or, perhaps God can ask us to do things which are contrary to his nature as priorly established? |
Noooooo.... that is why it is called the New Covenant. It was not us making a sacrafice for our sins. It was God.... sacraficing Himself... once and for all... for forgiveness of all sins. The Levitical Law applies to how man is to sacrafice to God. God can pretty much decide how the wages of sin will be settled... and this was the He happened to do it.
Also... what EXACTLY did He ask or do that was contrary to His nature? Ya lost me with that one. 
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | FYI, Yes, the original question posted here was more about status of people that lived before Judaism and Christianity. It was not a trick question or to be about the age of the earth, etc. And I think it was prudent to skip those questions for this thread. |
And P found it just as prudent. Thank goodness. 
Was the answer satisfactory? Or is there something that just ain't sitting right with it?
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1749
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Still not sitting right. I feel like a square peg is trying to be forced into a round hole.
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | Still not sitting right. I feel like a square peg is trying to be forced into a round hole. |
What did you expect?
I am not sure what part(s) are square or what parts are round... help a brother out here and we can discuss.
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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got_truth?
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: |
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First of all there are no cavemen in heaven. John 3:13: "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man" All who died prior to Jesus did not ascend to heaven. They are still sleeping in there graves awaiting a resurrection here on earth.
Jesus called himself “the way and the truth and the life” and was referred to by the apostle Paul as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.” (John 14:6; 1 Corinthians 15:20) Consequently, no one could have preceded him into heaven. But when Jesus did ascend to heaven some 40 days after his resurrection, was he then followed by worthy men of faith already deceased? Some ten days later, the apostle Peter said concerning King David that “he both deceased and was buried and his tomb is among us to this day. . . . Actually David did not ascend to the heavens.”—Acts 2:29, 34.
Thus, admission to heaven involves more than compensation for injustices suffered or even a rewarding of personal faithfulness. Instead, it provides for the formation of a heaven-based body of rulers composed of a representative number of humans under Christ’s direction, anointed by holy spirit.—Romans 8:15-17; Revelation 14:1-3.
Matthew 11:11 also shows that John the Baptist did not go to heaven. Remember, he died before Jesus. It reads: "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."
Only a select few go to heaven. (Luke 12:32) They will rule as kings and priests with Jesus over the earth, where persons like David, John the Baptist, and Moses will be resurrected to. Along with billions of others, righteous and unrighteous, will be also. (John 5:28,29) |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| got_truth? wrote: |
Matthew 11:11 also shows that John the Baptist did not go to heaven. Remember, he died before Jesus. It reads: "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."
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Now, how does this show that John the Baptist did not go to heaven again? Can you please expound on this. Because it looks like he DID go to heaven and found others there greather than he. Maybe even more than 144,000.
Just a guess, but I'm thinking he didn't see John T. Russell there. 
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You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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got_truth?
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| If you can't understand that, then you truly are lost. Who is John T. Russell? |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| got_truth? wrote: | | If you can't understand that, then you truly are lost. Who is John T. Russell? |
I know, I'm just a simple minded farmer. That's why I asked you to expound on it. You can do that can't you? For us lost simpletons?
Google John T. Russell and find out who he is.
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You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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got_truth?
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| I googled John T. Russell. He is a senator from Missouri. What is to explain about the scripture? It clearly states that there hasn't been a greater one born on earth (besides Jesus). Yet the least one in heaven is greater than he is. So if John went to heaven and he was greater than all others born on earth, whom you say went to heaven also, they would be greater than he is. That is a contradiction. How do you explain that David did not ascend to heaven? And Jesus said no one entered into heaven before him. And what is the resurrection for then. If everyone went to heaven why would they need to be resurrected here to earth. When Lazarus died, did Jesus say he was in heaven? No he said he was sleeping in death. So he resurrected him. If Jesus new he was in a better place why would he have wept? Why would he have brought him back to life on earth if he was in heavenly bliss? The whole Bible is in harmony so you have to make sure that what you believe is in harmony with the entire Bible. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| got_truth? wrote: | | First of all there are no cavemen in heaven. John 3:13: "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man" All who died prior to Jesus did not ascend to heaven. They are still sleeping in there graves awaiting a resurrection here on earth. |
Would that also include Moses... Elijah who appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration? How about Abraham who was described as providing a resting place for Lazarus... in heaven? What about Enoch of Gen 5... if God took him... where did he go? How about the man in II Corinthians 12:1-4... was he in the grave waiting to go to heaven too?
Am I blowing smoke here... am I wrong... if so, please cite chapter and verse demonstrating that no one was in heaven prior to Christ’s resurrection.
| Quote: | | Thus, admission to heaven involves more than compensation for injustices suffered or even a rewarding of personal faithfulness. Instead, it provides for the formation of a heaven-based body of rulers composed of a representative number of humans under Christ’s direction, anointed by holy spirit.—Romans 8:15-17; Revelation 14:1-3. |
Romans is discussing the New Covenant and adoption into God's family through it... not what happened to souls prior to Christ.
Revelation 14:10 - what does this have to do with who is and who is not in heaven? Is this some type of case (Jehovah's Witness doctrine) that there is a maximum of 144K people in heaven?
| Quote: | | Matthew 11:11 also shows that John the Baptist did not go to heaven. Remember, he died before Jesus. It reads: "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." |
Raised up means what? From the dead? Or from the people of Israel? Look at the context.
| Quote: | | Only a select few go to heaven. (Luke 12:32) |
"Do not fear little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." How does this mean only a select few people go to heaven?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6065
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Am I blowing smoke here... am I wrong... if so, please cite chapter and verse demonstrating that no one was in heaven prior to Christ’s resurrection. |
There's only that bit where Christ Himself says that nobody managed it. Bit of a contradiction, eh? |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Am I blowing smoke here... am I wrong... if so, please cite chapter and verse demonstrating that no one was in heaven prior to Christ’s resurrection. |
There's only that bit where Christ Himself says that nobody managed it. Bit of a contradiction, eh? |
Christ mentions this... where? A bodily resurrection perhaps... but spiritual? He mentions this... please cite chapter and verse.
I very well may be wrong... but I don't remember reading this... if it is a contradiction... you need to point it out to me.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6065
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven – the Son of Man.
2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking, suddenly a fiery chariot pulled by fiery horses appeared. They went between Elijah and Elisha, and Elijah went up to heaven in a windstorm.
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God, and then he disappeared18 because God took him away.(I'll give that this doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as the others, but Hebrews says otherwise:)
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death, and he was not to be found because God took him up. For before his removal he had been commended as having pleased God. |
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