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graphicsguy
Alley Cat
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 198
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | AND.....in order to maintain eternal life, an individual will have to eat from the Tree of Life. |
So what happens if someone dies on the New Earth (they get killed falling off a cliff and can't make it to the tree in time)? The Bible says there will be no more death so your answer is the "fountain of youth" myth all over again? |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2697
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| graphicsguy wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | AND.....in order to maintain eternal life, an individual will have to eat from the Tree of Life. |
So what happens if someone dies on the New Earth (they get killed falling off a cliff and can't make it to the tree in time)? The Bible says there will be no more death so your answer is the "fountain of youth" myth all over again? |
The person who gets onto the New Earth will never know death, pain, or sorrow.....ever again, throught all eternity.
Once Christ comes again, the 2nd time to take HIS people to heaven, they will be there for 1000 years, after that, God will create a New Earth and New Heavens.......
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. |
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OrdinaryRadical
Tadpole
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church and the apostles and the elders, and they rehearsed all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why make ye trial of God, that ye should put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.
Act 15:12 And all the multitude kept silence; and they hearkened unto Barnabas and Paul rehearsing what signs and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles through them.
as well as peter's vision in Acts 10
Act 10:9 Now on the morrow, as they were on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 and he became hungry, and desired to eat: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance;
Act 10:11 and he beholdeth the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth:
Act 10:12 wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts and creeping things of the earth and birds of the heaven.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common and unclean.
Act 10:15 And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common.
Act 10:16 And this was done thrice: and straightway the vessel was received up into heaven.
What God has cleansed do not consider unholy anymore.
Interesting enough that the apostles decided in the Jerusalem council to not burden the Gentile converts (us) with the Law of Moses. They said it seemed good to them and the Holy Spirit. God's commands have now said that the Law of Moses is not necessary to be kept.
Based on Romans 14, though. I do not believe it necessary to persecute someone who does believe that the law of moses is necessary to be kept. I do, however, believe that it is wrong to push someone to follow the law of moses, that is a Yoke that we cannot bear.
We tend to pick and choose our law. If we are going to follow the Law of moses (yes the food practices too) we need to be sure we are following the whole of the law. Many who consider this do not follow the whole of the law. I do not see any wave sacrifices being preformed (or any for that matter).
p.s. I do not deny, however, that it is important to keep up on our health. We need to be considering that. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2697
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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This is a perfect example of not reading the whole chapter........
| OrdinaryRadical wrote: |
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church and the apostles and the elders, and they rehearsed all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why make ye trial of God, that ye should put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.
Act 15:12 And all the multitude kept silence; and they hearkened unto Barnabas and Paul rehearsing what signs and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles through them.
as well as peter's vision in Acts 10
Act 10:9 Now on the morrow, as they were on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 and he became hungry, and desired to eat: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance;
Act 10:11 and he beholdeth the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth:
Act 10:12 wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts and creeping things of the earth and birds of the heaven.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common and unclean.
Act 10:15 And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common.
Act 10:16 And this was done thrice: and straightway the vessel was received up into heaven.
What God has cleansed do not consider unholy anymore.
Interesting enough that the apostles decided in the Jerusalem council to not burden the Gentile converts (us) with the Law of Moses. They said it seemed good to them and the Holy Spirit. God's commands have now said that the Law of Moses is not necessary to be kept.
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NOW. finish reading the rest of the chapter....and anyone can see that God's vison had nothing to do with food......
10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what [is] the cause wherefore ye are come?
10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
10:23 Then called he them in, and lodged [them]. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
10:24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [him].
10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
10:27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. |
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OrdinaryRadical
Tadpole
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what you are getting at, that seems to reinforce the point even more. That Peter should not call any man uncommon or unclean further shows that the Gentiles should not be considered unclean because of what they eat or what they do or what they associate with. The idea is men, but the idea becomes what goes into a man is not what makes him unclean but rather what comes out of a man [Mark 7:15 which contextually is referring to the law of Moses statement to wash your hands before you eat, the statement can be taken in a wider scope in terms of the whole law adding emphasis on the word "nothing" as being a very generic word that can apply to more than just hand washing].
Why would God send Peter a vision of food saying that the food is clean to eat now and yet be talking about "not food"?
Of course I read the whole chapter, I simply quoted a small portion of it. I see the whole chapter pertaining to the cleanliness of gentiles in all aspects of life. Even in their eating habits.
Paul reinforces this view in Romans 14:13 where Paul is telling us not to "judge one another [on food and days according to the context rest of the chapter] anymore, but rather determine this --not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way"
Therefore also, it is not right for me to judge you or cause you to stumble based on your eating habits but, likewise, you must not judge others or cause them to stumble either. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2697
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| OrdinaryRadical wrote: | I'm not sure what you are getting at, that seems to reinforce the point even more.
That Peter should not call any man uncommon or unclean further shows that the Gentiles should not be considered unclean because of what they eat or what they do or what they associate with. |
You're missing the point.
The Jews thought that all other races of mankind were unclean.
The Jews thought themselves superior to all other races of mankind....because God has chosen them as His people.
That thought went to their heads in prideful ideas.
The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus points that fact out clearly.Luke, chapter 16.
| Quote: |
Paul reinforces this view in Romans 14:13 where Paul is telling us not to "judge one another [on food and days according to the context rest of the chapter] anymore, but rather determine this --not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way"
Therefore also, it is not right for me to judge you or cause you to stumble based on your eating habits but, likewise, you must not judge others or cause them to stumble either. |
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
The living organism is God's property.
It belongs to Him by creation and by redemption; and by a misuse of any of our powers we rob God of the honor due to Him.
A Question of Obedience
The obligations we owe to God in presenting to Him clean, pure, healthy bodies are not comprehended.
A failure to care for the living machinery is an insult to the Creator.
There are divinely appointed rules which if observed will keep human beings from disease and premature death.
One reason why we do not enjoy more of the blessing of the Lord is, we do not heed the light which He has been pleased to give us in regard to the laws of life and health.
God is as truly the author of physical laws as He is author of the moral law. His law is written with His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every faculty, which has been entrusted to man.
The Creator of man has arranged the living machinery of our bodies.
Every function is wonderfully and wisely made.
And God pledged Himself to keep this human machinery in healthful action if the human agent will obey His laws and cooperate with God.
Every law governing the human machinery is to be considered just as truly divine in origin, in character, and in importance as the word of God.
Every careless, inattentive action, any abuse put upon the Lord's wonderful mechanism, by disregarding His specified laws in the human habitation, is a violation of God's law. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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concerning things we're supposed to eat and not eat.
I thought this was cool..
concerning the birds..the unclean things..
Lev 11:13 ¶ And these [are they which] ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they [are] an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Lev 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
Lev 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
Lev 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
they weren't allowed to eat these...
then I saw:
Psalm 124
Psa 124:1 ¶ [[A Song of degrees of David.]] If [it had not been] the LORD who was on our side, now may Israel say;
Psa 124:2 If [it had not been] the LORD who was on our side, when men rose up against us:
Psa 124:3 Then they had swallowed us up quick, when their wrath was kindled against us:
Psa 124:4 Then the waters had overwhelmed us, the stream had gone over our soul:
Psa 124:5 Then the proud waters had gone over our soul.
Psa 124:6 Blessed [be] the LORD, who hath not given us [as] a prey to their teeth.
Psa 124:7 Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.
Psa 124:8 Our help [is] in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.
hugs
lone |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2697
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | concerning things we're supposed to eat and not eat.
I thought this was cool..
concerning the birds..the unclean things..
Lev 11:13 ¶ And these [are they which] ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they [are] an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Lev 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
Lev 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
Lev 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
they weren't allowed to eat these...
then I saw:
Psalm 124
Psa 124:1 ¶ [[A Song of degrees of David.]] If [it had not been] the LORD who was on our side, now may Israel say;
Psa 124:2 If [it had not been] the LORD who was on our side, when men rose up against us:
Psa 124:3 Then they had swallowed us up quick, when their wrath was kindled against us:
Psa 124:4 Then the waters had overwhelmed us, the stream had gone over our soul:
Psa 124:5 Then the proud waters had gone over our soul.
Psa 124:6 Blessed [be] the LORD, who hath not given us [as] a prey to their teeth.
Psa 124:7 Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.
Psa 124:8 Our help [is] in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.
hugs
lone |
What most people in the Christian world seem to ignore is the control over appetite.
#1.) This led to Adam & Eve downfall.
#2.) It was the subject of satan's first major temptation in the mission of Jesus Christ.
#3.) It wiil be a major issue in the Mark of the Beast scenerio ...soon to come. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Hi Silver,
and do you believe this refers to physical food or spiritual doctrine?
The tree of knowledge of good and evil...it bore fruit.
Was this literal fruit or spiritual fruit?
See how Peter tells the Lord in acts how he has never eaten anything unclean? And we know he wasn't talking literal meat right? Maybe those ravens and owls and vulures that they were told not to eat are the teachings of unclean beasts..LOL..
however, now Peter is told to go and eat.
So if the tree of knowledge was as an unclean thing to Adam, now Peter is being told to eat of it.
Something about eating dust and thorns and thistles rather than figs and grapes..
to learn the difference between what is spiritually clean and spiritually unclean doctrine/food/bread/meat?
hugs
lone |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2697
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | Hi Silver,
and do you believe this refers to physical food or spiritual doctrine? |
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
I find that too many people think God is only interested in the spirtual aspects of man.
BUT, God is interested in everything about man, mental.... physical, and the spiritual well-being, of men/women.
| Quote: |
The tree of knowledge of good and evil...it bore fruit.
Was this literal fruit or spiritual fruit? |
The physical, is always tied to the spiritual.
God did not make man a composite of a spiritual (ghost-like) being, and a physical being....fighting against each other, trying to dominate over each other.
| Quote: |
See how Peter tells the Lord in acts how he has never eaten anything unclean? And we know he wasn't talking literal meat right? |
Right.
| Quote: |
however, now Peter is told to go and eat.
So if the tree of knowledge was as an unclean thing to Adam, now Peter is being told to eat of it. |
God uses physical things, to describe the spiritual realm.
And is the reason Jesus used parables of nature, to describe the Kingdom of God.
| Quote: |
to learn the difference between what is spiritually clean and spiritually unclean doctrine/food/bread/meat?
hugs
lone |
When Jesus said to eat my flesh and drink my blood.....the jews took it as literal meaning, and they were horrfied (John, chapter 6:56...).
But, Jesus meant it in the spiritual sense. |
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Steven3
Lion King
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 1205
Location: UK
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2697
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Steven3 wrote: |
anyway......
Christ made all foods clean |
Where does it say that ?
And WHY would Jesus Christ contardict Himself ? | Quote: |
Paul says eat whatever you find in the meat markets without asking questions.
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And ....be destroyed when He comes again ?
NO THANKS !!!!!
Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Description of Christ'sreturn to this earth..... 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. |
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