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Catholic church warming up to condoms


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FFT
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6067

Location: Memphis
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:
Although, had you thought it through before firing your own, defensive volley, you might have achieved some understanding of God.
Rolling Eyes

Flashman wrote:
Two apes having sex is instinctual and not a thought-out, planned event. Your own source (link) shows their behavior to be nothing more than acts of instinctive attempted pro-creation.
Then clearly, you didn't read it.
Wikipedia wrote:
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex.


Flashman wrote:
As to your "habit"; it has been my experience with you here, and in other areas of this discussion site, that you appear to argue for the sake of argument rather than to increase your understanding.
I'm not arguing with you, Flashman, I'm teaching you. Your silly ideas are demonstrably false.

Flashman wrote:
You take simple thoughts and attempt to frustrate them with smug, goofy come-backs like this simeon sexuality silliness, which you throw back as an argument to refute assertions that are pillars of Christian theology.
You asserted that humans were the only beings on earth that have sexual relations for reasons besides procreation. First, I laughed, because I didn't think you could possibly be serious. Then, when it turned out that you were, I got the Wikipedia article on Bonobos, got the link for the social behavior section, and posted it. It quite clearly shows that we are not the only beings on Earth who have sex for reasons other than procreation. Listed in the beginning of the article I linked, "greeting," "conflict resolution," "post-conflict reconciliation," and "favors for food." Did you even bother to read it?

Flashman wrote:
In order to refute many hundreds of years of study, you spend 20 minutes on Google in order to disprove the study is, and always has been, wrong.
1. I spent something like 3 seconds typing "bonobo" into wikipedia. I then looked through the contents for "social behavior," clicked it, copied the URL, and posted it. All in all, it probably took less than a minute, once I bothered to get around to it.

2. What hundreds of years of study did I refute, exactly?

Flashman wrote:
The habit I speak of is not only on this topic, but on your own "homosexual thread" regarding whether we are living in a republic or "representative democracy".
Yeah, you're just as wrong there, too.

Flashman wrote:
Your arguments are ghosts of truth and a child-like attempt to make a square peg fit into a round hole.
Even ghosts of truth would be better than the nonsense you're peddling. On the other hand, I have facts. Just because your round brain doesn't like the square pegs I'm trying to teach you with doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the pegs.

Flashman wrote:
FFT, if you wish to expand your mind, whether on things of God or on things in general, you might take your own advice and think them through before unholstering your lips.
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Ana
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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Location: BC
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
P1234567890 wrote:

You don't think that cats or dogs or any other animals enjoy sexual intercourse?!? Pleasure during sex and sex for procreation are not mutually exclusive!


They're more than just 'not mutually exclusive'; they're related. It's an evolved trait (as in, those who enjoy it are more likely to do it in the first place).
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Flashman
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

But that aside (and like FFT pointed out), there are creatures on Earth besides humans that have sex for pleasure rather than just for procreation. You can deny this all you want, but that doesn't stop it from being true.


Please, P. list these creatures for me would you please?

I promise, if you can offer substantiated proof, I'll keep quiet on that subject. ok?

Thanks,
Flash
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Victoria, Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:

Please, P. list these creatures for me would you please?

I promise, if you can offer substantiated proof, I'll keep quiet on that subject. ok?


FFT already did: bonobos. There are also all sorts of other cases of animals mastur-bating (there's even a picture):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-human_animal_sexuality
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Victoria, Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can we turn the censorship off? I'd like to be able to use the proper words for things. The proper spelling of master baiting does not need to be bleeped out.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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Flashman
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
P1234567890 wrote:
Flashman wrote:

Please, P. list these creatures for me would you please?

I promise, if you can offer substantiated proof, I'll keep quiet on that subject. ok?


FFT already did: bonobos. There are also all sorts of other cases of animals *Flog the Dolphin* (there's even a picture):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-human_animal_sexuality


No, you please list them for me would you? I'd like to see your own work here.

Flash
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FFT
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is getting ridiculous.

Flashman: it's been spelled out to you. You're wrong.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567

Location: Victoria, Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:

No, you please list them for me would you? I'd like to see your own work here.


Just click on the link, man! There's a picture of a dog master-baiting, a cow master-baiting, and a kangaroo master-baiting. And guess what: none of it is for procreation!

Here is a relevant quote:

Quote:
Current understanding is that many species believed monogamous have now been proven to be promiscuous or opportunistic in nature, a wide range of species appear to both masturbate and to use objects as tools to help them do so, in many species animals try to give and get sexual stimulation with others where procreation is not the aim, and homosexual behavior has now been documented in over 450 species.


If you're not going to believe the encyclopedia even when it has pictures, then you really are being silly. Do you want me to find you a video?
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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Flashman
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Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you mean to tell me that someone actually videotaped animals enjoying sexual behavior and it had nothing to do with procreation?

Don't you think that's strange? heh heh...

Flash
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Pondering
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Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that someone actually videotaped animals enjoying sexual behavior and it had nothing to do with procreation?

Don't you think that's strange? heh heh...

Flash


Whether I think it's strange or not is irrelevant...That's an opinion based decision...the debate is over facts. You said animals don't have sex for pleasure. They've got evidence that they do. Unless you can refute the evidence....you're done.

and BTW, the human porn industry is a billion dollar industry...that's lots of videotaping human mammals....
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567

Location: Victoria, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that someone actually videotaped animals enjoying sexual behavior and it had nothing to do with procreation?

Don't you think that's strange? heh heh...


Flash, as far as I can tell, this debate is over. We've given good evidence showing that animals engage in sexual acts that are not for the purposes of procreation. This means that humans are not alone in this regard, and that we are very, very similar to animals.

This in turn supports my earlier point that humans are just animals, and our sex drive is just one of our baser instincts, and most humans can do little or nothing about it. We've got better brains, but we're still just animals.

In other words, abstinence will NEVER work. You can get some kids to practice it, but if your goal is to get all of them to abstain, then you're fighting against nature.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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Flashman
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

You guys should go back and read all this from the beginning... Laughing Laughing

I mean, you guys were all over the place once the blood was in the water. It kept drawing more sharks until even in the end, P took the credit for besting me... Laughing

I just love you guys.

That's the democratic process at work...mob rules... Laughing Laughing Laughing

G'night gang. I'll see ya next topic.

Flashman
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7567

Location: Victoria, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:
until even in the end, P took the credit for besting me...


Ummm, where did I do that? I wrote,

Quote:

We've given good evidence showing that animals engage in sexual acts that are not for the purposes of procreation.


I think that your defeat was a very nice example of teamwork, and I would never claim solo credit for it. Wink

Besides, you shouldn't think of this as some kind of ganging-up on you. You said something that was wrong, and were corrected, that's all. It's nothing personal.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6067

Location: Memphis
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flashman wrote:
It kept drawing more sharks until even in the end, P took the credit for besting me... Laughing
Strange. I don't see him taking credit for a thing.

Or is that just you reading what you feel like reading? Again?
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Flashman
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Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guys, I knew from FFT's first link about Bonobo's that I had mis spoken from some statement I'd heard long ago. I just wanted to make a point to a friend what happens to somone in "denial".

I watched some Christian friends of mine begin to team up no a non-believer one time in New Orleans. The guy just wasn't "getting" it, so they hammered away at him until he finally saw the "light". But it wasn't him truly seeing the light, it was just him giving in to get them off his backs.

I made that analogy and my friend urged me to play you. I thought I'd been busted once when someone (I think maybe Ana or Pondering) made a comment on how silly I was being, but P and FFT were so adamant about making sure I fully understood I'd erred, there was no stopping them.

Really, go back through the posts and you'll probably (or maybe not) see what I'm talking about. Maybe you can get a lesson from this as well, huh? Wink

Flashman
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