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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: Question for Creationists |
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I'd like to hear your answers for this one:
If God made each of the half-dozen human species discovered as fossils in ancient rocks, why did He create in an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features -increased cranial capacity, reduced face and teeth, larger body size?
Did He create in order to mimic evolution and thereby test our faith? _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP Moderator

Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6886 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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First you would have to demonstrate empiracally that the fossil record is an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features -increased cranial capacity, reduced face and teeth, larger body size.
Then you would have to demonstrate that those fossils are human and not some extinct lower form of life.
Then you ... oh never mind, you lost on the first one. _________________ JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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FFT Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 6067 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | First you would have to demonstrate empiracally that the fossil record is an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features -increased cranial capacity, reduced face and teeth, larger body size. | Done.
| RevJP wrote: | | Then you would have to demonstrate that those fossils are human and not some extinct lower form of life. | So from
Australopithecus africanus
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo erectus
Homo ergaster
Homo heidelbergensis
Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I
Homo sapiens sapiens, modern
Which are human? Which are some sort of extinct, startlingly human-like lower form of life? _________________ When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | First you would have to demonstrate empiracally that the fossil record is an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features -increased cranial capacity, reduced face and teeth, larger body size.
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Radiological dating demonstrates it pretty decisively.
| RevJP wrote: |
Then you would have to demonstrate that those fossils are human and not some extinct lower form of life.
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Some of them are nearly human, and others are some lower forms of life -but not much lower. The point is that when you look at the skulls, the craneal capacity steadily increases, and they start to resemble us more and more as the aeons roll on. They definitely aren't apes or any of the other lower primates. _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | So from
Australopithecus africanus
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo erectus
Homo ergaster
Homo heidelbergensis
Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I
Homo sapiens sapiens, modern
Which are human? Which are some sort of extinct, startlingly human-like lower form of life? |
You guys are missing the point. Whether or not they are human is irrelevant. The question is, why did God create them with increasing brain capacities and standing ever more upright and looking ever more like us? As we go from the species that were around 1 million years ago, they steadily become more and more human-like. Why is that? _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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theseldomscene Banned

Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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milk is good for teeth and bones ...maybe those guys just need to drink more milk  |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Let me make my argument clear: here is an article about human evolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution. Pay particular attention to the timeline.
For some reason, the cavemen / apemen that were around 7 million years ago had much larger brains than apes, but much smaler brains than us. The ones that were around 6 million years ago had even larger brains. The ones around 5 million years ago had even larger ones, and so on, until you get to us, with the largest brains.
Here is the question: you guys obviously believe that God created all of these different species. Why did He create them specifically in the order of increasing brain size? Why did He create them such that their similarity to us is a function of time (the older they are, the more different they are)?
Is this some kind of test of faith? Why would God create them in this specific order? He sure is trying to make it look like evolution happened! _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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cballard Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 716 Location: WV
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| That God created the world is a fact. How he did it is open to debate and nature has a way of revealing facts. It goes back to the old Galieo and the Church affair. I'm not going to be damned to Hell if I don't know how God created the world am I? |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | | That God created the world is a fact. How he did it is open to debate and nature has a way of revealing facts. It goes back to the old Galieo and the Church affair. I'm not going to be damned to Hell if I don't know how God created the world am I? |
I'm not saying that you're going to be damned to Hell; I simply want to hear a plausible explanation from scripture for why the way in which God created everything looks so much like evolution. _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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theseldomscene Banned

Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | milk is good for teeth and bones ...maybe those guys just need to drink more milk  |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | theseldomscene wrote: | milk is good for teeth and bones ...maybe those guys just need to drink more milk  |
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You really think that lack of milk is a plausible explanation for the transitional fossils between us and the lower primates?!? _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Tiptronic Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 143 Location: On the net
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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So living things change. Like viruses change and adapt over time. Maybe it was the way we were made- ability to adapt for the better of ourselves.
I still go along with the milk thing though. |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiptronic wrote: | So living things change. Like viruses change and adapt over time. Maybe it was the way we were made- ability to adapt for the better of ourselves.
I still go along with the milk thing though. |
So you think that if humans don't get enough milk in their diets, they end up having smaller brains and looking like like neanderthals?
You really think that they would have fully-formed skeletons with no symptoms of osteoperosis, and they would just end up having messed up faces, bad teeth, and tiny brains? You really think that it is possible for a lack of milk to cause this?!? _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Tiptronic Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 143 Location: On the net
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Tiptronic wrote: | So living things change. Like viruses change and adapt over time. Maybe it was the way we were made- ability to adapt for the better of ourselves.
I still go along with the milk thing though. |
So you think that if humans don't get enough milk in their diets, they end up having smaller brains and looking like like neanderthals?
You really think that they would have fully-formed skeletons with no symptoms of osteoperosis, and they would just end up having messed up faces, bad teeth, and tiny brains? You really think that it is possible for a lack of milk to cause this?!? |
Heck, i should write JOKE after every joke i make....
Just for further clarification, i was jokin there.
So what do u believe then? |
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P1234567890 Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 7563 Location: Victoria, Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Tiptronic wrote: |
Heck, i should write JOKE after every joke i make....
Just for further clarification, i was jokin there.
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Ok, I got it now!
| Tiptronic wrote: |
So what do u believe then? |
I believe the scientific community; we evolved from lower primates. _________________ "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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