The trouble is in the heart of mankind.

golfjack

Are you lost or saved? There is no purpose served in fooling yourself. You are either born again, or you are not. You are really saved, or you are being deceived into thinking you are, and you are lost.

You know your own life and your true relationship to God. So get the facts settled that you are a genuinely saved person, and in present contact with God.

Culture, refinement, and outward correctness of life, in the organized church or out of it cannot take the place of the New Birth. For the trouble , you see, is in the heart.

Jesus said, for within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man (Mark 7:21-23).

The trouble is in the heart, the inward man, the spirit. Merely to reform the outward man or the outward life will not save you.

An artist could put a beautiful colored coating of wax on the outside of a rotten apple, but the apple would still be rotten at heart. One bite into it would be a bite into decay.

Out of Christ, every man is rotten in the heart. and mere outward correctness of life, apart from Christ, is artificial and the practice of hypocrites. And Jesus said of those He Called hypocrites, for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and all uncleanness (Matt. 23:27).

May God bless, golfjack

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:

Thankyou golfjack Very Happy

I believe that when we do not have Christ in our heart, that it is Satan who sits upon that throne within us.
And when we accept Christ to rule in our lives, he cast satan out from within us.

But if we allow satan to wander back in and re-take control of us, then we become 10 times worse than we were before.

I think this is why Paul says:
How is it that once you have been introduced and partaken of the Love of God in you, that you can turn away and forget about it?

Hebrews 6:4-6
For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

So how would one know if they were saved or lost?

In my opinion...
You would know the truth and the truth is the Love of God in you, and the truth would set you free.

1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

just some thoughts..
Peace
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

golfjack · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:28 am Post subject: reply

Very good post Lone. How does one know they are saved? Answer: They know by the witness of the Holy Spirit to our spirits. After reading Hebrews 6:4-12, Can one lose their salvation? Would appreciate some thoughts on this.

May God bless, golfjack

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:26 am Post subject:

Hbr 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Hbr 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Hbr 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.
Hbr 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Hbr 6:10 For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Hbr 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Hbr 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

So after considering the above scripture..
I would have to say, that in order for one to lose their salvation they would have to utterly forsake the knowledge of God and God's Love. They would have to utterly turn from the Truth of God.

God Is Love, So can one who has loved for get that Love which he had tasted of?

Can one become total hate and anger and turn from God after being saved by the truth that God is Love.

Can one not know what Love is after having Love within them?

Then One would have to be truly rebellious against all manner of love. Hateful, backbiters, you know the list Smile

That I guess would be those that follow the anti-christ. Anti-truth.
Anti-Love.
Can one be turned away and led away from Love?

Satan did.....

Can Love be forgotten? If so, then I guess one could lose their salvation.
Because without faith, one can not be saved. And if all love has been forgotten then what do they have faith in, or for?

So Is it possible to forget Love after having had Love?

That's the question I would ask golfjack.

Peace
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

golfjack · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: reply

Lone, I pretty much agree with you. First of all, if one thinks they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, they haven't because the enemy always will try to get believers into condemnation. By the way, I have noticed in the last few months, you have really spiritually grown as a believer. You must have studied the Word of God for a long time, and took the advice of Paul, and that is to renew your mind by hearing and by the Word of God.

Losing one's salvation has been a long debate going on for centuries. Now this is what I believe and how I interpret Hebrews 6:4-7: If one is striving for spiritual growth, they have no need to worry. At one time or another, we have all missed it or messed up in our Christian walk. There are true believers that are ignorant for varoius reasons. There are those who have their pet sins, and don't allow the Word of God to work through them to help make them better in their walk. There are some fully mature Christians, but haven't run into many. Having said all of this, I believe the only way for a Christian to lose their salvation is to publically deny Christ and serve Satan. I really don't think this happens that much, but will probably happen during the end times (Apostate Church). I can already see this happening today, as we speak.

Anyway, this is how I see it. May God bless, golfjack

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject:

Hi golfjack,

I think the difference between when I first heard. I mean really heard the truth and now is...

If I place God and Jesus in an image, any image of what my mind chooses to put them in, it actually takes away from what God says he is.

God IS Love. So when I read where God said anything or does anything, I replace God with Love. Because truly this is what I believe God IS.
And when I read where Jesus said anything, then it is Truth that is speaking. And when the Holy Spirit is mentionioned it is Peace that is being spoken of.

In this way a lot of things became very clear to me.

You know that there is an argument/debate that goes God is Male/God is female?
Well, What is Love? It is neither male nor female, and yet is has both male and female attributes.

Another thing that has been on my mind lately golfjack, and I know this goes against a lot of peoples beliefs. So at this time I will say that it is only my opinion and to please not be offended by it, is:

You know how the old works of the law have been done away and replaced with faith and grace? I see a lot of works in play in the new testament as well.
Whether it is baptism or foot washing or partaking of communion, some is going to confession, or attending church on a certain day....
They all seem to me to be being observed as the Israelites obeyed the old law.
That people believe that by the works of the above and I mean physical works, that one must do them (again) to be found worthy or righteous by the new law.
I think that many forget or are led away from the spirit of the law again.

Like history repeating itself, only it's today instead of in the days of Moses.

That to me being baptised means to forgo your old way of life in not following in truth and love, to die to your ego's and vanities, angers and strife, bickerings and contentions and divisions. That when we come up out of that old way of life we are a new person and one that walks in humbleness of spirit, speaking only truth in love.

Just like the Pharisees were so busy worrying about washing their hands, and Jesus told them, it's not your hands you have to worry about, it's your heart.

So I started really concentrating on Love. All by itself. What is Love? What does it mean to me? How do I apply Love around me? Is this what God is?
And I thought yes, and so much more...
So I started picking some fruit and studying what is gentleness, and kindness? What does it mean to be meak and what is temperance?
Do I have these qualities inside of me? If not, then I'm not doing something right or I'm not fighting hard enough to overcome my old passions of self-righteousness and pride.

I think somehow ordinances that were meant for spiritual growth, crept back in and became physical works again, just like in the days of Moses.
That we are always trying to SHOW the world how good we are by attending church, or going to confession, or being baptised a certain way at a certain time...
Does God (Love) really have to have you do these things so other people see you do them? Or does God watch your heart to see if you are sincere in what you are asking for?

Even Jesus (Truth) says: Do not your alms before men, but when you pray go in your closet, because what you do in secret God sees in the open. Then when we give ourselves to others, not by an open show of "See what I did" but a subtle helping, a smile, a hug, a loving gesture, that God is more pleased with these things than sitting on a pew because you feel you should, instead of because you want to share your love and time with others of like beliefs, and there is no place else you would rather be.

Why are there divisions in the church? Why?
Because everybody believes that their way of doing things is the right way, right?
What is Loves way?
Does Love care whether your a different color, or a different language, or different nationality? Does Love care if you come with money in your pocket or as poor as a homeless person?
Does Love care if you spend time with Him on Tuesday or Friday or any other day? Does Love care about whether you are baptized with a sprinkle or dunked in a river?

I went looking for what it is that Love really wants from me. And I listened to the Truth about the matter. And I am persuing these answers with as much Peace as God has supplied me with.
And daily I find this increasing golfjack!!!

I hear someone argue and I used to get impatient, but now it seems I have a lot more patients than I ever did before.
I ask daily, I seek minute by minute, what would Love do? And what is the Truth of the matter? And how can I explain what it is I feel with as much Peace as I have been blessed with?

This is where I am. In my walk with God. It's not easy because there are a lot of distractions all the time that try our patience, and ty to lead us into discord. Thats when I pray for strength and understanding.
I pray unceasingly, and now I understand what Paul meant by praying without ceasing.

So All I can ask of all of you is for your love and patience while I travel this road, and if there is anything that I can share with others that helps me, then I share what I have.

Does it make it right? don't know. Does it mean it's wrong? still don't know.
All I can tell you is how I feel, what I believe, and why I believe the way I do.
I have more peace in my whole being than I have ever had in my life.
And to Know that God himself is Love is so reassuring to me. And to know that Truth is what is leading me to that Love...Oh My!!

LAUS DEO!!! My heart is singing and I feel like I'm walkng on air.

And so I can say, with all the truth and Love in my heart..
Peace to you from me
with all my heart
Lone

I got off topic again.... Rolling Eyes

sorry
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

golfjack · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: reply

Lone, from the bottom of my heart I thank you for your great love for Jesus, and others. You have found the magic of Love (The God kind) you are right in saying that God is love. Of all the books I have ever read, the Bible is the greatest love story ever told.

Lone, actually I agree with you about religion being of works in some of today's churches. Some do all these religious things, and aren't really saved. Foot washing, water baptism, confession, sacraments, being moral, doing good deeds, and all the things that mankind can dream up to save them, does not save anybody. The Father has the great plan of salvation provided by His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ to execute on the cross what no man could do. Now our Heavenly Father did not have to do this, but chose too because of one word, LOVE.

I do have a special place in my heart for the Jews and the lost. This is why I do what God wants me to do as being an Evangelist. You know, there are some really good churches that we can worship at and hear some really good preaching (backed up by the true Gospel).

Thanks again for your service for the Lord.

May God bless, golfjack