The Rapture of the Church

Kindgo · Tadpole Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 20

What is it and when will it take place?
by Dr. David R. Reagan

The Rapture is a glorious event which God has promised to the Church. The promise is that someday very soon, at the blowing of a trumpet and the shout of an archangel, Jesus will appear in the sky and take up His Church, living and dead, to Heaven.

The Term
The term, Rapture, comes from a Latin word that means to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out. It is a Biblical word that comes right out of the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. The word is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In the New American Standard Version, the English phrase, “caught up,” is used. The same phrase is used in the King James and New International Versions.

A Promise to the Church
The concept of the Rapture was not revealed to the Old Testament prophets because it is a promise to the New Testament Church and not to the saints of God who lived before the establishment of the Church.

The saints of Old Testament times will be resurrected at the end of the Tribulation and not at the time of the Rapture of the Church. Daniel reveals this fact in Daniel 12:1-2 where he says that the saints of that age will be resurrected at the end of the “time of distress.”

Biblical References
The first clear mention of the Rapture in Scripture is found in the words of Jesus recorded in John 14:1-4. Jesus said, “I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

The most detailed revelation of the actual events related to the Rapture is given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. He says that when Jesus appears, the dead in Christ (Church age saints) will be resurrected and caught up first. Then, those of us who are alive in Christ will be translated “to meet the Lord in the air.” Paul then exhorts us to “comfort one another with these words.”

Paul mentions the Rapture again in 1 Corinthians 15 - his famous chapter on the resurrection of the dead:

“Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.” (verses 51 and 52)

Paul’s reference here to being changed is an allusion to the fact that the saints will receive glorified bodies that will be perfected, imperishable and immortal (1 Cor. 15:42-44, and 50-55).

The Timing
The most controversial aspect of the Rapture is its timing. Some place it at the end of the Tribulation, making it one and the same event as the Second Coming. Others place it in the middle of the Tribulation. Still others believe that it will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation.

The reason for these differing viewpoints is that the exact time of the Rapture is not precisely revealed in scripture. It is only inferred. There is, therefore, room for honest differences of opinion, and lines of fellowship should certainly not be drawn over differences regarding this point, even though it is an important point.

Post-Tribulation Rapture
Those who place the timing at the end of the Tribulation usually base their argument on two parables in Matthew 13 and on the Lord’s Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

In Matthew 24 the Lord portrays His gathering of the saints as an event that will take place “immediately after the tribulation of those days” (Matt. 24:29). This certainly sounds like a post-Tribulation Rapture. But it must be kept in mind that the book of Matthew was written to the Jews, and therefore the recording of Jesus’ speech by Matthew has a distinctively Jewish flavor to it as compared to Luke’s record of the same speech.

Note, for example, Matthew’s references to Judea and to Jewish law regarding travel on the Sabbath (Matt. 24:15-20). These are omitted in Luke’s account. Instead, Luke speaks of the saints looking up for deliverance “to escape all these things” when the end time signs “begin to take place” (Luke 21:28 and 36). The saints in Matthew are instructed to flee from Judea and hide. The saints in Luke are told to look up for deliverance.

It appears, therefore, that Matthew and Luke are speaking of two different sets of saints. The saints in Matthew’s account are most likely Jews who receive Jesus as their Messiah during the Tribulation. The saints in Luke are those who receive Christ before the Tribulation begins. Most of those who accept the Lord during the Tribulation will be martyred (Rev. 7:9-14). Those who live to the end will be gathered by the angels of the Lord (Matt. 24:31).

The parable of the wheat and tares (Matt. 13:24-30) and the parable of the dragnet (Matt. 13:47-50) can be explained in the same way. They refer to a separation of saints and sinners that will take place at the end of the Tribulation. The saints are those who receive Jesus as their Savior during the Tribulation (Gentile and Jew) and who live to the end of that awful period.

Mid-Tribulation Rapture
There are variations of the mid-Tribulation Rapture concept. The most common is that the Church will be taken out in the exact middle of the Tribulation, at the point in time when the Antichrist is revealed.

This concept is based upon a statement in 1 Corinthians 15:52 which says that the Rapture will occur at the blowing of “the last trumpet.” This trumpet is then identified with the seventh trumpet of the trumpet judgments in the book of Revelation. Since the blowing of the seventh trumpet is recorded in Revelation 11, the mid-point of the Tribulation, the conclusion is that the Rapture must occur in the middle of the Tribulation.

But there are two problems with this interpretation. The first is that the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is blown for believers whereas the seven trumpets of Revelation 8, 9 and 11 are sounded for unbelievers. The Revelation trumpets have no relevance for the Church. The last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is a trumpet for the righteous. The last trumpet for the unrighteous is the one described in Revelation 11.

Another problem with this interpretation is that the passage in Revelation 11 that portrays the sounding of the seventh trumpet is a “flash forward” to the end of the Tribulation. Flash forwards are very common in the book of Revelation. They occur after something terrible is described in order to assure the reader that everything is going to turn out all right when Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation.

Thus, the eighth and ninth chapters of Revelation, which describe the horrors of the trumpet judgments, are followed immediately by a flash forward in chapter 10 that pictures the return of Jesus in victory at the end of the Tribulation. The mid-Tribulation action resumes in chapter 11 with a description of the killing of the two great prophets of God by the Antichrist. Then, to offset that terrible event, we are presented with another flash forward, beginning with verse 15. The seventh trumpet is sounded and we find ourselves propelled forward to the end of the Tribulation when “the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of our Lord.”

The point is that the seventh trumpet of Revelation relates to the end of the Tribulation and not the middle. It is therefore no basis for an argument in behalf of a mid-Tribulation Rapture.

Pre-Wrath Rapture
The cornerstone of this concept is that the terrifying events during the first half of the Tribulation are due to the wrath of Man and Satan, and not to God. Since the Church is only promised protection from the wrath of God, the Rapture will not occur until near the end of the Tribulation when God will pour out His wrath on the world.

This concept raises a serious theological problem because it questions the sovereignty of God. It assumes that Man and Satan can act apart from God’s will, when the fact of the matter is that neither can do anything God is not willing to permit. The Bible often portrays God carrying out His will through evil persons or nations. One of the classic examples is when He allowed the evil nation of Babylon to discipline Israel by destroying Jerusalem and the Temple and by carrying the surviving Jews away into captivity. It was an action that prompted the prophet Habakkuk to ask why God would punish those who are evil with those who are more evil (Habakkuk 1:13).

Any carnage wrought by Man or Satan during the Tribulation will still constitute the wrath of God. They will simply be His instruments. The Bible says God sits in the heavens and laughs over the plots and deeds of evil men, not because He does not care, but because He has everything under control (Psalm 2:1-6). The point is that He has the wisdom and power to orchestrate all evil to the triumph of His will in history. That’s why the psalmist wrote that “the wrath of man shall praise You [God]” (Psalm 76:10).

I think it is also important to note that when God pours out His wrath, He does not always do so directly. One of His most common ways is to simply back away from the nation or person and lower the hedge of protection around them. This is clearly spelled out in Romans 1:18-32. That passage says that when people rebel against God to the point that they begin to worship the creation rather than the Creator, God “gives them over” to the evil in their hearts. In other words, He just steps back and lets evil multiply. The passage further states that if they still refuse to repent, He steps back again and “gives them over to degrading passions.” And if they persist in their rebellion and sin, He finally “gives them over to a depraved mind” at which point the society destroys itself. Such destruction could be viewed as the wrath of Man, but it is really the wrath of God working through Man.

There is another serious problem with the pre-wrath Rapture concept. It relates to the fact that all the wrath of Revelation is specifically portrayed as the wrath of God. Where do the seal judgments originate? The answer is from the throne of God as Jesus opens each seal of the scroll that was in the Father’s right hand (Revelation 6:1). And where do the trumpet judgments originate? The same place — from the throne of God (Revelation 8:2). When we arrive at the bowl judgments in Revelation 15:1, we are told that with them, “the wrath of God is finished.”

Another problem with the pre-wrath concept is that it does violence to the chronological order of Revelation. The seal judgments are viewed as the wrath of Man and Satan, occurring during the first half of the Tribulation. The trumpet and bowl judgments are considered to be the wrath of God. They are lumped together at the end of the Tribulation. There is no justification for putting the trumpet judgments at the end of the Tribulation. They are clearly placed in the first half of the Tribulation in the chronological layout of the book of Revelation.

One final problem with the pre-wrath concept of the Rapture is that it disputes the fact that there is no purpose for the Church being in the Tribulation. The Tribulation is the 70th week of Daniel, a time devoted to God accomplishing His purposes among the Jewish people, not the Church.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
I believe the best inference of Scripture is that the Rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. The most important reason I believe this has to do with the issue of imminence. Over and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told “to be ready” (Matt. 24:44), “to be on the alert” (Matt. 24:42), “to be dressed in readiness” (Luke 12:35), and to “keep your lamps alight” (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persistent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.

Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord’s appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord’s appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.

For example, if the Rapture is going to occur in mid-Tribulation, then why should I live looking for the Lord’s appearing at any moment? I would be looking instead for an Israeli peace treaty, the rebuilding of the Temple, and the revelation of the Antichrist. Then and only then could the Lord appear.

Focus
This raises the issue of what we are to be looking for. Nowhere are believers told to watch for the appearance of the Antichrist. On the contrary, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ. In Titus 2:13 Paul says we are to live “looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.” Likewise, Peter urges us to “fix our hope completely on the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:13). John completes the apostolic chorus by similarly urging us to “fix our hope on Him” at His appearing (1 John 3:2-3).

Only Matthew speaks of watching for the Antichrist (Matt. 24:15), but he is speaking to the Jews living in Israel in the middle of the Tribulation when the Antichrist desecrates the rebuilt Temple.

Wrath
Another argument in behalf of a pre-Tribulation Rapture has to do with the promises of God to protect the Church from His wrath. As has already been demonstrated, the book of Revelation shows that the wrath of God will be poured out during the entire period of the Tribulation.

The Word promises over and over that the Church will be delivered from God’s wrath. Romans 5:9 says that “we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him [Jesus].” 1 Thessalonians 1:10 states that we are waiting “for His Son from heaven . . . who will deliver us from the wrath to come.” The promise is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 - “God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Deliverance
Some argue that God could supernaturally protect the Church during the Tribulation. Yes, He could. In fact, He promises to do just that for the 144,000 Jews who will be sealed as bond-servants at the beginning of the Tribulation (Rev. 7:1-8).

But God’s promise to the Church during the Tribulation is not one of protection but one of deliverance. Jesus said we would “escape” the horrors of the Tribulation (Luke 21:36). Paul says Jesus is coming to “deliver” us from God’s wrath (1 Thess. 1:10).

Symbolism
There are several prophetic types that seem to affirm the concept of deliverance from Tribulation. Take Enoch for example. He was a prophet to the Gentiles who was raptured out of the world before God poured out His wrath in the great flood of Noah’s time. Enoch appears to be a type of the Gentile Church that will be taken out of the world before God pours out His wrath again. If so, then Noah and his family are a type of the Jewish remnant that will be protected through the Tribulation.

Another Old Testament symbolic type which points toward a pre-Tribulation Rapture is the experience of Lot and his family. They were delivered out of Sodom and Gomorrah before those cities were destroyed.

The Apostle Peter alludes to both of these examples in his second epistle. He states that if God spared Noah and Lot, then He surely “knows how to rescue the godly from trial and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment” (2 Peter 4-9).

Another beautiful prophetic type is to be found in the Jewish wedding traditions of Jesus’s time. After the betrothal, the groom would return to his father’s house to prepare a wedding chamber for his bride. He would return for his bride at an unexpected moment, so the bride had to be ready constantly. When he returned, he would take his bride back to his father’s house to the chamber he had prepared. He and his bride would then be sealed in the chamber for seven days. When they emerged, a great wedding feast would be celebrated.

Likewise, Jesus has returned to Heaven to prepare a place for His bride, the Church. When He returns for His bride, He will take her to His Father’s heavenly home. There He will remain with His bride for seven years (the duration of the Tribulation). The period will end with “the marriage supper of the Lamb” described in Revelation 19. Thus the seven days in the wedding chamber point prophetically to the seven years that Jesus and His bride will remain in Heaven during the Tribulation.

Revelation
Speaking of Revelation, the structure of that book also implies a pre-Tribulation Rapture in a symbolic sense. The first three chapters focus on the Church. Chapter 4 begins with the door of Heaven opening and John being raptured from the isle of Patmos to the throne of God in Heaven. The Church is not mentioned thereafter until Revelation 19:7-9 when it is portrayed as the “bride of Christ” in Heaven with Jesus celebrating the “marriage supper of the Lamb.” At Revelation 19:11 the door of Heaven opens again, and Jesus emerges riding a white horse on His way to earth, followed by His Church (Rev. 19:14).

The rapture of the Apostle John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type of the Rapture of the Church. Note that it is initiated by the cry of a voice that sounds like the blowing of a trumpet (Rev. 4:1). Since the Tribulation does not begin until Revelation 6, the rapture of John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type that points to a pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.

Some counter this argument by pointing out that although the Church is not mentioned in Revelation during that book’s description of the Tribulation, there is constant mention of “saints” (for example, Rev. 13:7). But that term is not used in the Bible exclusively to refer to members of the Church. Daniel uses it to refer to Old Testament believers who lived long before the Church was established (Dan. 7:18). The saints referred to in the book of Revelation are most likely those people who will be saved during the Tribulation, after the Church has been taken out of the world.

Paul’s Assurance
An interesting argument in behalf of the pre-Tribulation timing of the Rapture can be found in 2 Thessalonians. The church at Thessalonica was in a turmoil because someone had written them a letter under Paul’s name stating that they had missed the “gathering to the Lord” and were, in fact, living in “the day of the Lord” (2 Thess. 2:1-2).

Paul attempted to calm them down by reminding them of his teaching that the day of the Lord would not come until after the Antichrist is revealed. He then stated that the Antichrist would not be revealed until a restraining force “is taken out of the way” (2 Thess. 2:3-7).

There has been much speculation as to the identify of this restraining force that Paul refers to. Some have identified it as the Holy Spirit. But it cannot be the Holy Spirit because there will be people saved during the Tribulation, and no one can be saved apart from the testimony of the Spirit (John 16:8-11 and 1 John 5:7).

Others have identified the restrainer as human government. It is true that government was ordained by God to restrain evil (Romans 13:1-4). But the governments of the world are in rebellion against God and His Son (Psalm 2), and they are therefore a contributor to the evil that characterizes the world. Furthermore, the Tribulation will not be characterized by a lack of government. Rather, it will feature the first true worldwide government (Rev. 13:7).

In my opinion that leaves only one other candidate for Paul’s restrainer - and that is the Church. It is the Church that serves as the primary restrainer of evil in the world today as it proclaims the Gospel and stands for righteousness. When the Church fails in this mission, evil multiplies, as Paul graphically points out in 2 Timothy 3:1-5. Paul says that society in the end times will be characterized by chaos and despair because “men will hold to a form of religion but will deny its power.” When the Church is removed from the world, all hell will literally break loose.

Escapism?
The pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture has often been condemned as “escapism.” I think this criticism is unjustified. The Bible itself says that Christians are to “comfort one another” with the thought of the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:18). Is it a comfort to think of the Rapture occurring at the end of the world’s worst period of war instead of at the beginning?

Regardless of when the Rapture actually occurs, we need to keep in mind that the Bible teaches that societal conditions are going to grow increasingly worse the closer we get to the Lord’s return. That means Christians will suffer tribulation whether or not they go into the Great Tribulation. And that means all of us had better be preparing ourselves for unprecedented suffering and spiritual warfare.

If you are a Christian, you can do that on a daily basis by putting on “the full armor of God” (Eph. 6:13), praying at all times in the Spirit that you will be able to stand firm against the attacks of Satan (Eph. 6:14-18).

If you are not a Christian, your only hope is to reach out in faith and receive the free gift of God’s salvation which He has provided through His Son, Jesus (John 3:16).

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God bless,
Kindgo

The Lord told us to look for the Blessed Hope. He encouraged us to be joyful as we await the
Bridegroom who may call us up at any time. Scripture after scripture after scripture instructs us to look to Israel as God's timepiece. Jesus listed the signs of the times for us and we are to recognize them, NOT deny them. We are to know the difference between the church and national Israel and celebrate Israel's future deliverence. Pretribbers strive to obey all of these wonderful things.

JohnStevenson · Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:45 pm Post subject: The Rapture of the Church

QUOTE: The term, Rapture, comes from a Latin word that means to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out. It is a Biblical word that comes right out of the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. The word is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In the New American Standard Version, the English phrase, “caught up,” is used

Perhaps there is a reason that Dispensationalists have chosen to use the term "rapture" rather than the "catching up." It is because it would be too easily mistaken for such language as is found in Matthew 24 that speaks of God "gathering up" his elect or of Him "taking" on and leaving another.

The fact that the writers of the New Testament did not try to distinguish between two separate comings of Christ perhaps indicates that they held to a different eschatological outlook. I've suggested as much at http://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/rapture.html

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LocalGuy · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:57 pm Post subject: The Rapture of the Church

That's odd, the reference to 1st Thessalonians 4:17..
when the verse right before it says..

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."
1st Thessalonions 4:16
New King James Version

Shout, Voice, Trumpet.. and rising of the dead. Doesn't sound secret or rapturish.

Anyone care to share what God has revealed to them on this topic?

Tiger75 · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:57 am Post subject:

Hi Localguy,

This is one of those topics where there are as many views as there are Christians I think.

At this moment in time my view is very simplistic - Jesus' Second Coming is the next 'major' event in God's plan. All one event. If you want me to elaborate I can.

Tiger

ELI · Alley Cat Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 181

metothezero · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:40 am Post subject:

I would post something, but since I'm A.D.D.ing today, and you posted an epilogue, I think I'll go to another topic.

Holywind · Goldfish Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 61

I'm going to share this in brief little statements backed with scripture.

I will stipulate to the fact "RAPTURE" does not appear as a "word" in the Bible, that it is the Greek word "HARPAZO" translated as "shall be caught up" in I Thes. 4:17.

The new information I have to share is . . .

TheGreek word [b]HARPAZO[/b] is used 13 times in the New Testament, and generally means "to snatch or pluck out violently by force" or "to snatch or pluck out of violence by force"
All 13 refernces can be found on page 82 of The Englishman's Greek Concordance of the New Testament, published by Zondervan. (Incidentally, the MOST AMAZING RESOURCE BOOK IN TH WORLD for studying the scriptures, BAR NONE!)

When Jesus returns he will HARPAZO (snatch or pluck us out) of violence by force.

The dead in Christ shall RISE FIRST, then we which are alive (and) remain, SHALL BE CAUGHT UP, together to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thess. 4:17)

To "RISE" from the dead is to be "RESURRECTED". The dead in Christ RISE FIRST. Logical conclusion, this is the FIRST RESURRECTION.

". . . and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of JESUS, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, nor in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. (Rev. 20: 4,5)

The HARPAZO ("Rapture" or "Catching away") recorded in I Thess. 4:17 is the RESURRECION of ALL the Old Testament "SAINTS" from Noah to JESUS' RESURRECTION, and ALL New Testament "SAINTS" (Born again BELIEVERS in Jusus) through the period of the "Mark of the Beast".

There are 7 SEALS. The 7th Seal is the opening of the 7 TRUMPET JUDGEMENTS. The 7th TRUMPET is the war in heaven between Michael, the archangel, and the Devil; and the Devil is cast out of heaven and the period of the 144,000, and the "Mark of the Beast" , the HARPAZO (Rapture) and the ushering in of the 7 BOWLS of the WRATH of God. We, as believers, will not be here at that point as it is written, "We are not appointed unto WRATH but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

Zathrus · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:01 pm Post subject:

Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 12 of a man who had the experience of being "caught up" (harpazo), but Paul said he did not know whether this happened

Zathrus · Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Rapture of the Church

I realize that the individual who posted (that I say not, pasted) Wink

the rather wordy article that initiated this thread has probably since moved on to greener pastures, since there have been no further posts from him/her in over a year. But I wanted to point out/respond to this:

Holywind · Goldfish Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 61

Hi Zathrus Laughing

Paul is writing about the "Rapture" in I Cor. 15.

Revelation 20: 4-6 makes it crystal clear. It says, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them, and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Blessed and holy is he that has part in the FIRST RESURRECTION, on such the SECOND DEATH has no power."

For we (living) shall NOT PRECEED them which sleep in Jesus, (the dead) . . (I Thess. 4)

The "DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST. . ." (I Thess. 4)
This [b]"corruptable" (dead and rotting in the grave person)[/b] must put on "Incorruption" (meaning it rises from the dead and can never die and rot again). (I Cor 15)

Then "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE" . . . "Shall Be Caught Up" (HARPAZO / Raptured) (I Thess. 4)
This MORTAL (living being) must put on IMMORTALITY (never able to die) (I Cor. 15)

"WE, (the risen dead & and those believers who survive the tribulation)SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER" to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefor comfort one another with these words." (I Thess. 4)

The "RAPTURE" is the FIRST RESURRECTION and includes ALL believers from NOAH to the last person beheaded for NOT taking the MARK OF THE BEAST which is all the way to the end of the 7th TRUMPET which lines up with what Paul writes in I Cor. 15 " We shall ALL BE CHANGED in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET.

Only the DEAD IN CHRIST RISE (Resurrect) The REST OF THE DEAD lived not again UNTIL the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

There is NO PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE! Pre-Trib Rapture is contrary to the plain written word of God. Everyone who dies refusing the mark of
the beast is included in the THE FIRST RESURRECTON. ALL THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE FIRST.

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:46 am Post subject:

OK, so how do verses 23-28 fit in?

JamesMc · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: Look at the full picture!

1Thes. 4:17

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6845 Location: USA

Zathrus · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject:

Welcome, James Mc.

It might help if you mention who you are replying to. And of course, read or at least skim the whole thread. There were three replies, including mine, that clearly took issue with the dispensationalist rapture teaching presented in the opening post of this thread.

There is a diversity of viewpoints represented on this site, which makes it a great place for, as the name says, Bible Discussion.