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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2191
Location: WI USA
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 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Mojo,
The passages you've brought up from 1 Cor 15 and 2 Cor 5 are great. They're some of the toughest to wrap your brain around from any viewpoint, let alone a preterist viewpoint. Many preterists do believe in a literal resurrection of the physical body, whether in the afterlife or at a specific time in our future. There are a number of divergent opinions on the nature of the resurrection.
I hope you understand that while I may mention viewpoints I've read or heard as I did above, what I share here is my own opinion and interpretation. I don't speak for a movement, I speak for myself. We have to have our own walk with God, we can't let someone do that for us.
In the passage in 1 Cor 15, immediately after the last verse you quoted, Mojo, Paul writes | Quote: | 55"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?" 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. |
This indicates the death Paul has been talking about is the death which is caused by sin. It also places the time of the defeat of this death at the time of the demise of the law.
Star, I think you're right on when you connect the resurrection with having dominion over the law of sin and death, and with being clothed with Christ, and with Jesus being the resurection and the Life. That's what I think it's all about.
In the passage in 2 Cor 5, isn't being found naked always a metaphor in the Bible for being condemned of sin by the law? It goes back to the garden. Like in 1 Cor 15, the mention of the mortal body would seem to indicate a bodily resurrection, but OTOH the fact that this has to do with becoming free from or dead to the law and passing into a new life is clearly brought into the equation. Paul said he did not wish to be unclothed (to reject the old covenantal order only to have the law condemn him as a sinner) but to be clothed upon (with Christ) that mortality might be swallowed up in life.
As always, it's helpful to look back to the old testament passages that these new testament passages are making reference to. Isaiah 25 says
| Quote: | 7 On this mountain he will destroy
the shroud that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations;
8 he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove the disgrace of his people
from all the earth.
The LORD has spoken.
9 In that day they will say,
"Surely this is our God;
we trusted in him, and he saved us.
This is the LORD, we trusted in him;
let us rejoice and be glad in his salvation." |
It's been pointed out to me that the context of this passage is relational - God accepting and restoring His people - and not about a bodily resurrection. In verse 7, the sheet or covering is the curse of Adam. There are other passages in the old testament that mention it. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| there are many o.t. passages that support bodily resurrection. |
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1115
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: esthalogy |
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Remember when Jesus asked the Father, why have You forsaken me? Jesus took upon himself all our sins. He paid the entire debt. Jesus suffered spiritual death (separated from the Father) so we may havve spiritual life. Jesus is called the first Born. Jesus is the second Adam. This is why we must be born again.
May God bless, golfjack |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2191
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| jim stevenson wrote: | | there are many o.t. passages that support bodily resurrection. |
And there are many that do not. Often when there seems to be a contradiction it is because there is a truth there that we're not seeing yet. The nature of resurrection is an extremely difficult subject. There is a lot there that we don't understand because we haven't looked at it the right way or asked the right questions. |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I agree Zath, the more I look into it the more is shown as well "the process of growth into a Son of God" within the epistles expressing they expound the pictures in Revelation within themselves. I love finding the "peices" its fun as heck, our God rocks! 
2 Cor 5: 1: For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2: For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the """same shall be clothed in white raiment""" and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
2Corinth 5:8 If so be that being clothed we shall """not be found naked."""
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me """gold tried in the fire""" that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that ""thou mayest be clothed"", and [that] the """shame of thy nakedness""" do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Naked under the law and overcoming by faith in Christ and clothed in Him.
Romans 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which """came out of great tribulation""" and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ """have put on Christ""
1Corinth 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Isaiah 25:8 HE WILL """swallow up death in victory""" and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it].
1Corinth 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
1Corinth 15:56 The STING of death [is] SIN; and the STRENGTH of sin [is] THE LAW
Sin shall not have dominion over you for your not under law but Grace.
He comes to those looking for Him ""without sin""" and HE who "loosed the pains of death""(Acts)
Interesting the Second death is also shown as Not hurting them, like death is swallowed up in life. Like they were already IN DEATH needing to passover by Him into Newness of Life. The Law was not for the righteous (By Faith) which is interesting the unbelieving and fearful (Which those who fear HATH TORMENT) are similiar to comparison in wording to the second death itself. Smoke is present there, God defines the Smoke as self righteous (Holier then thou) in Isaiah, he also defines they themselves as a FIRE. Theres affliction by way of statute and a PRESENT FIRE Jude speaks of. Those whose garments were stained by FLESH (Works thereof) and pull them out of the (present) FIRE. Like Mount Sinai a Burning Mount cast into the Sea (Lake of fire) a testing, furnance of affliction of tails (false prophets) inflicting hurt and given the power to do so). Interesting its the SMOKE of "Their Torment" if seen as men as defined in Isaiah ascendeth UP for ever. I so gotta to look into this stuff its awesome. No rest day and night is found under the curse of the law = They shall not enter MY REST. No more NIGHT in the City because IN CHRIST there is NO DARKNESS= Night. Yeah looks like scrambled eggs but makes sense as the symbols blend together as the pictures come together.
I see it all coming out from the Law in spiritual symbols and trusting in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Gold tried by the fire, whats tested is the worth or value of your faith.
He redeemed them from the curse of the law
Rev 22:3 And there shall be """no more curse""" but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants """shall serve him""" (not dead works)
The face of Christ is the face of the Father...2Corinth 4:6 glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. (His laws in their mind)
2Corinth 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Gen says the darkness is "Called night"
Rev 22:5 And there shall be NO NIGHT """there""" and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
But heres where they came from..
Eph 5:8 For ye were """sometimes darkness"" but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
For He has already IN THEM
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and """"hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son"""
Ofcourse Peter goes into the light that shines in our hearts and the day dawning etc. And How one reigns with Christ, usually thats throw behind the backs of a carefully plotted out fleshly rule and reign which has nothing to do with the way the epistles present it. |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3188
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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question then;
1. Did Paul at any time suggest he was already resurrected?
And let's look at the wording of John
1 John 3:14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
The point: death still exists. It still has victory over him that loveth not his brother. The last enemy has not been destroyed yet.
2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he (((shall appear,))) we (((shall be ))) like him; for we shall see him as he is.
future tense to which John includes himself.
3: And every man that hath this (((hope))) in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
hope (((is not))) fulfilment. Hope is a word that describes something in the future.
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope;
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1115
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: Esthalogy |
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Hi MoJo, I John 3:14 This verse is describing spiritual death, and not physical death. Let's look at the following scriptures about spiritual death: Ge. 2:17; Eze. 18:20; Ro. 6:23; Ro. 6:23; Ja. 1:15; Ja. 5:20; Rev. 21:8. Spiritual death is what happens if one doesn't accept Jesus Christ with the whole heart. To put it bluntly, the unbelievers will go to hell. I don't care how anyone puts it, THey can't go to heaven anymore than the man in moon could. If I bbelieve otherwise, then Jesus died in vain. The Bible says that God will not be mocked.
If one reads 1 thess. 5:23, one can understand the Word better, which many believers don't get. We are spirit, have soul (emotions, miind, senses) and have a body covering. There are many verses in the Bible that prove this. When the Bible mentions Heart, it is not talking about an organ that pumps blood. It means our spirits. Usually in most translations, The Spirit will be captilized ( Holy Spirit). If the Bible is addressing our spirits, it is not captiliized. Know this, sure makes for a better understanding of God's Word.
I still think all along, we have been comparing apples and oranges. It really upsets me when one tells someone everybody will go to heaven. That heresy is flat out wrong. We as Christians should be very careful when teaching God's Word.
May God bless, golfjack |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Golf heres where the following unbelieving have their part... (I ran hell and unbelief, and, unbeliever, and unbelieving, scriptures do not say that). Unbelief has its roots in returning to the law which is not of faith.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers (hate), and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have THEIR PART in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother """abideth in death""" Gees sounds like there in the same death?
Romans 11:32 For God hath """concluded them all in unbelief""" that he might have """MERCY UPON ALL"""
Himmm... Lets see this truth in our example Paul...
1Titus 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I OBTAINED MERCY (why??) because I did [it] ignorantly in UNBELIEF.
Romans 3:3 For what if some DID NOT BELIEVE? shall THEIR UNBELIEF make the faith of God WITHOUT EFFECT?
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but EVERY MAN A LIAR=( Lake of fire with you); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Those already in death
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could NOT ENTER in because of unbelief.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached ENTERED NOT in because of unbelief
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to ENTER THAT REST, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and THEY HAVE NO REST day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Curse of the law
Duet 28:66 And thy life shall ""hang in doubt"" before thee; and thou shalt FEAR (fear hath torment) day and night, and shalt have ""none assurance of thy life"""
Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the ""effect of""righteousness, quietness and assurance for ever.
1Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and CONCIENCE IS DEFILED
Rev 21:27 And there shall in NO WISE ENTER INTO IT it any thing that DEFILETH, neither [whatsoever] WORKETH ABOMINATION, or MAKETH A LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Worketh abomination and Iniquity, what are these?
Isaiah 1:13 """BRING NO MORE""" VAIN oblations; incense is an ABOMINATION unto me; the NEW MOONS and SABBATHS, the CALLING OF ASSEMBLIES, I cannot away with; """IT IS INIQUITY""" even the SOLEMN MEETING.
Romans 4:15 Because the ""law worketh wrath"" for where no law is, there is no transgression
Job 34:8 Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men. (keyword wicked men defined here)...2Thes 3:2 that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have NOT FAITH
Romans 4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Neh 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and ENTERED IN A CURSE, and into an oath, TO WALK IN GODS LAW, which was given by MOSES the servant of God, and to observe and DO ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD OUR LORD, and HIS JUDGMENTS and HIS STATUTES
John 3:26 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not """SEE""" life; but the """wrath of God abideth ON him""
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city.
Sounds like both the lake of fire which hath torment and the "fearful" which are in it hath the same....
1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect LOVE CASTED OUT FEAR (I thought fear went into the fire wow!) because FEAR HATH TORMENT. He that feareth is NOT made perfect in love.
Wow... an unseen fire...
Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] OUT OF THE FIRE; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
No more Sea
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the """blood of a dead man""" and every """living soul"" died """in the sea"""
Who is this speaking of?
1Corinth 15:45 The first man Adam was made ""living soul"" the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
Who died in the Sea?
1Corinth 15:22 For as in Adam """all died""" even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the """depths of the sea"""
Since """sins and iniquities""" are cast into the Sea
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities I will """remember no more."""
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was """no more sea"""
Our sins are ""in the Sea"" no more remembering our sins.... no more Sea
Theres Day and night in the Second death but there is no more night in the City |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2191
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | | Naked under the law and overcoming by faith in Christ and clothed in Him. |
Absolutely, Star! Here's another great verse on that subject: Rev 16:15
| Quote: | | 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. |
There's so much just in this one verse spoken by our Lord! The day was soon coming in which He would come to judge those who trusted in the law by the law. He'd told those He ministered to while He was on earth that none of those who trusted in the law kept it themselves. It was an open book test! Here He is warning those who like the intended readers of the book of Hebrews, were considering going back to the law and the sacrificial system. He was coming soon to judge all who based their righteousness on that system, and to put an end to that system.
| Star wrote: | | Interesting the Second death is also shown as Not hurting them, like death is swallowed up in life. Like they were already IN DEATH needing to passover by Him into Newness of Life. The Law was not for the righteous (By Faith) which is interesting the unbelieving and fearful (Which those who fear HATH TORMENT) are similiar to comparison in wording to the second death itself. Smoke is present there, God defines the Smoke as self righteous (Holier then thou) in Isaiah, he also defines they themselves as a FIRE. Theres affliction by way of statute and a PRESENT FIRE Jude speaks of. Those whose garments were stained by FLESH (Works thereof) and pull them out of the (present) FIRE. Like Mount Sinai a Burning Mount cast into the Sea (Lake of fire) a testing, furnance of affliction of tails (false prophets) inflicting hurt and given the power to do so). Interesting its the SMOKE of "Their Torment" if seen as men as defined in Isaiah ascendeth UP for ever. I so gotta to look into this stuff its awesome. No rest day and night is found under the curse of the law = They shall not enter MY REST. No more NIGHT in the City because IN CHRIST there is NO DARKNESS= Night. Yeah looks like scrambled eggs but makes sense as the symbols blend together as the pictures come together. |
This is some really great stuff, Star! The smoke ascending forever in Rev 14 could well be a reference to the smoke and fire that the bible says rose like a furnace at the top of Mt Sinai. The final judgement was the judgements pronounced in the law coming on those who the law condemned as guilty.
It is interesting that it says the righteous would not be hurt of the second death. Not like they weren't around, but like Shadrack, Meshach and Abednigo, they may have been in the midst of it, but it had no power to hurt them. Why? Because as Paul wrote, anyone who had put their faith in Christ was dead to the law. They were in Christ. They were in a place spiritually where the law could not condemn them.
Deuteronomy 33:2:
| Quote: | | And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. |
And on the topic of the 2nd death, what about this verse? | Quote: | | These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; |
I believe the book this verse was taken from was a warning about Judaizers - those who taught observance of old covenant law was necessary in the early church, covenant mixers. They'd made a profession of faith in Christ and passed from death to life, but had gone back to works of the law, back into death.
Mojo, I agree that at the time the apostles wrote what later became our new testament, they were yet awaiting their hope. I've mentioned in other threads that I believe that as long as the temple still stood in Jerusalem, and the Levitical priesthood and the sacrifices existed, that even though God had established the new covenant by the cross of Christ, that the old covenant also remained in effect. It was not until God fulfilled the words written in the law of Israel's demise becasue of their departing from Him that the old covenant was put to a close in 70AD. The powers of the heavens were shaken, the things that were made disappeared, and the kingdom that could not be shaken remained. Or, from 2 Cor 5, the things that were seen (the temple, the pristhood) were temporal but the things that are not seen are eternal.
That's why the apostles wrote as though they were partaking of the powers of the age to come, they reckoned themselves dead to the law, alive from the dead in Christ, but yet they still awaited the hope of righteousness (Gal 5:5). |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Zath theres some awesome stuff in Rev its really hidden throughout the epistles, I mean this stuff is awesome. Law and grace. I too believe the sorer punishment because of the insulting of His Spirit grace and returning to that which His wrath abides on, the law, which is not of faith. Dead to Him (The light) in outer darkness (of spiritual nature, which is eternal).
I saw your last verse and thought on it, I said Kool lets run with that lol
Zath I'm going off Gal 5:5 you posted last, to follow through it from before until when it becomes their living reality (1Peter 1:12 tells what they are feeling inside themselves when they reach it)
Psalm 39:7 And now, Lord, what wait I for??? my hope [is] IN THEE.
Jerm 17:17 Blessed [is] the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD IS.
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the """hope of his calling""" and what the """riches of the glory""" of his inheritance in the saints,
Dont see it yet...
Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do """we with patience wait for it"""
Him...
Lam 3:24 The LORD [is] MY PORTION, saith my soul; therefore will I hope IN HIM.
Salvation...
Lam 3:26 [It is] good that [a man] should both hope and quietly wait for THE SALVATION OF THE LORD
Glorious appearing...
Titus 2:13 Looking for that """blessed hope""", and the GLORIOUS APPEARING of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
To The End....
Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto THE END= CHRIST
Rev 22:13 I AM... the beginning and """THE END""" the first and the last.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto THE END= CHRIST
Heb 6:18 fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: (which is Christ in you)
1Thes 5:8 the hope of salvation.
1Titus 1:1 Lord Jesus Christ, WHICH IS """our hope""
FINALLY RECIEVING !!!
1Peter 1:9 """Receiving""" THE END (JESUS CHRIST) ""of your faith"", [even] the SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS
1Peter 1:3 BEGOTTEN US AGAIN unto a LIVELY HOPE by the """resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"""
1Peter 1:13 hope to THE END (CHRIST) for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the """revelation of Jesus Christ"""
Col 1:27... Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whoa !! He Rocks !! |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2191
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Star, you got it goin' on, girl! 
I love where you're headed with that last post! That brought to mind a couple of other verses.
1 Cor 15:47 | Quote: | | 47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. |
This identifies the resurrection body as Jesus Christ! He is the resurrection and the Life! There's more to that than what I can wrap my little brain around. 
Romans 8:18
| Quote: | | 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. |
What glory was in them? Jesus Christ! They awaited a manifestation of the fullness of Christ in them.
2 Thess 1:10
| Quote: | | 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. |
When Jesus came again, where did He appear? In those who believed! Behold the tabernacle of God is with men! The glory of God that resided in the Holiest place in the temple, that those in the old covenant could not go near, now lives in each of us. |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3188
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:14 am Post subject: |
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1Peter 1:13 hope to THE END (CHRIST) for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the """revelation of Jesus Christ"""
Col 1:27... Christ in you, the hope of glory:
What is the hope (((of))) glory?
And at what point does hope turn into attained?
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1115
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:49 am Post subject: esthalogy |
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Christ in you, the hope of glory: This is in harmony with Ephesians. In that letter, Paul states that the mystery is the union of Jews and Gentiles in one body, Christ's church (Eph. 3:6). Going on to verse 28, the concept of perfection in the New Testament means completeness or maturity. Here the reference is to the coming of Christ, when every believer will experience the completion of Christ's work in him or her (see, 1 Cor. 13:10).
May God bless, golfjack |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2191
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| I kinda think that when the old covenant passed away in 70AD and only this new covenant of grace remained, we did see the completion of Christ's work. |
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1115
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:20 am Post subject: esthalogy |
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The New Covenment was established when Jesus Christ died, buried, and reurrected and then sat at right hand of the Father. I haven't seen Jesus yet. Have you? I don't feel like I am in Heaven yet. Have you?
May God bless, golfjack |
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