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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If I was to tell you that I did not believe the God of the bible to be God, would you still say I could go to heaven? |
Well lets see first i would ask you "is your God the God of Adam, Abraham and Jacob?"
Your answer would be my answer!
Oh yeah and "I never denied HIM".
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metothezero
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: |
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If I denied that Yahweh (Jehovah), the God of Adam, Abraham and Jacob was deity, would you hesitate to say that I would not enter the kingdom based upon this?
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The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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christina
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Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Deity why do you have to add. We dont need all this "smoke" to get in the way or mix us up.
Would we both be in agreement that the God of Abraham is the God we are both talking about?
Where do you find the word "Deity" in the bible?
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ma'am we do not find the word 'God' in the Bible either. It was written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Deity is simply a characteristic of that which is God. God has deity. God is deity.
Answer the question. If I were to say that Yahweh - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - was not God, would you for one moment hesitate to say that I would not be within the Kingdom based upon my denial?
| Quote: | | Would we both be in agreement that the God of Abraham is the God we are both talking about? |
Yes, but the problem is when I say 'God', I include three persons in this one divine name.
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| metothezero wrote: | | Ma'am we do not find the word 'God' in the Bible either. |
Yes
| Quote: | | Answer the question. If I were to say that Yahweh - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - was not God, would you for one moment hesitate to say that I would not be within the Kingdom based upon my denial? |
Not for a moment!
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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So you would not hesitate to say that I am not saved based upon my denial that God is God?
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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christina
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Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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thats not the same thing and you know it.
Son = God VS God = God
you dont see the diffrence?
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metothezero
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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No I don't see the difference. You believe God to be God (as I do). Yet I believe Scripture to teach that God is not as simple as that; I believe it teaches that Yahweh (God) is composed of three different persons.
So I believe God (Yahweh) to be God (Father, Son, and Spirit). Therefore, when you say that God (Yahweh) is not God (Father, Son and Spirit) and is only God (Father) then it is tantamount to one saying that God (Yahweh) is not God.
Let me attempt to direct the conversation a little. Christina, who said this:
| Quote: | | Isa 44:24 This is what the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb, says: I am the LORD, who made everything; who stretched out the heavens by Myself; who alone spread out the earth; |
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Matthew 19:16
Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Doesnt it seem like Jesus is bringing attention to this matter because he is not to be called God.
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metothezero
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
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Location: east texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm...are you just going to ignore my last question?
Very well then...
| Quote: | | Doesnt it seem like Jesus is bringing attention to this matter because he is not to be called God. |
No not at all. Jesus never said He wasn't good, nor that He wasn't to be called God. Jesus simply asked the man why he (the man) called Him good. Jesus then said that only God is good. Jesus never denied that He was either good or God.
It would be tantamount to you coming to me (if we were friends) and addressing me as friend. To which I respond, "Why do you call me friend?" My reasoning for asking this is not to say I am not your friend, rather to get you to think about why exactly we are friends...
The same is true here. Jesus did not ask this man why he called Him good to deny His goodness. Rather, He wanted the man to think about why exactly he was calling Him good; and to get the man to think whether he really knew what good was, or who the ultimate goodness was standing before him.
Now, who does Isaiah quote in chapter forty-four verse twenty-four of the book named after him? Who said that He made everything by Himself and stretched out the earth ALONE? Who, in your opinion, said that?
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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christina
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Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now, who does Isaiah quote in chapter forty-four verse twenty-four of the book named after him? Who said that He made everything by Himself and stretched out the earth ALONE? Who, in your opinion, said that? |
God
| Quote: | It would be tantamount to you coming to me (if we were friends) and addressing me as friend. To which I respond, "Why do you call me friend?" My reasoning for asking this is not to say I am not your friend, rather to get you to think about why exactly we are friends...
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No I dont see it this way, think about it
If your Son were to go to you and say "Dad what time is it" you would give him the time. You wouldnt say why are you calling me dad so he could think "Gee why is he my dad".
On the other hand
If I were to go to you and say "Dad what time is it what would you say?
You would say why are you calling me dad, because you would expect us to both know your not my father.
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metothezero
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:43 am Post subject: |
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The difference lies in the changing of terms that you have given. The young lawyer did not come up to Jesus and address Him by a specific title of relationship, rather He addressed Him with an attribute. He said 'good', he did not say 'Father'.
Yet it doesn't matter that much either. If my son was to come up to me, I would first be entirely shocked that I had a son and didn't know it (in which case it would be fitting to ask him, 'why do you call me father?'). But it is also reasonable to assume that I would ask him 'why do you call me dad?' for the purpose of getting him to understand exactly what kind of relationship we have; especially if it is a little child. This was a teaching method used by our LORD. This was likewise a very well known teaching method used by the Rabbis. They asked questions in response to questions asked them so as to have their students answer their own questions based upon the response to the question asked them by the Rabbi. Understand?
My question:
You answered that God was the one who is being quoted in Isaiah 44:24, does this then mean that God claims to have created the world by Himself without any help? Would this be your 'understanding' of this verse?
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Ok I've explained this before but here it goes again
There is God
Then their are gods, lords,
Jesus is lord/god of earth.
God is Lord over all gods and lords
He is the Lord of lords and The God of gods and the King of kings
Now im not sure what you are asking but yes God is the first he is not a third of One God. Now I dont know who is talking about streching out the earth because Jesus saves those on earth so i dont know if it is Jesus saying i stretched out the earth or if its God.. Can you see where I am saying I DONT KNOW
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christina
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Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Oh yeah and you said
| Quote: | | Yet it doesn't matter that much either. If my son was to come up to me, I would first be entirely shocked that I had a son and didn't know it (in which case it would be fitting to ask him, 'why do you call me father?'). |
Well maybe that is exactly what Jesus thought. 
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christina
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Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Did that same man or anyone else call Jesus "Good Teacher" after Jesus said no one is Good except God?
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