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Nobby
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Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5016
Location: Missouri
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 Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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MoJo
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hellllooooo. anybody out there? no comments, different viewpoints?
Ok, here's what I have figured out so far. The first lion beast in Dainiel is Persia- mede. The 2nd, the bear, is Greece, which pretty much makes the lepoard Rome, but I'm still working on that one. The first two are for sure.
The first beast has to be counted from Persia - Mede because this vision comes to Daniel after Babylon has fallen and Darius the Mede is king of Babylon. Also it is during Darius' reign that Daniel is put in the ((((lion's))) den (lion beast). As well, Persia - Mede is given the heart of a man because all 4 kings were sympathetic to the Jews and aided and financed them in rebuilding Jerusalem.
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theseldomscene
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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i still see GOD's kingdom as a fifth kingdom not part of the statue in dan.2
the stone cut without hands in vs. 34. i see the vision to speak of the kingdoms that came and have gone and are to come again. i see the prophecy to seem to say that in the kingdoms will make one man/beast/image. |
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MoJo
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3171
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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stokey just inadvertantly led me to a scripture in Rev which ties in perfectly with Daniel's beasts.
Daniel 7:4: The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
Rev 12:14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
the two wings of the 1st beast??????  And what is the timing of this? After the man child is caught up unto God and to his throne and when satan is cast down.
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theseldomscene
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ez.17 has some cool eagle stuff too. |
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MoJo
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3171
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hhhhmmm, this bears more thinking about. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5016
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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MoJo, Who do you say is the woman is in your post?
Call me dumb, but is this by chance Jerusalem?  |
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joman
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Mojo wrote: | | “…the idea that the feet depict God's kingdom.” |
The kingdom of God isn’t made of iron. Iron is a base metal. Iron is the signature of Rome. It is the primary physical thing that defines Rome’s dominance of the world. The Romans used iron swords while others used copper, wood, and bronze. All the parts of the image in Nebuchadezzars dream belong to the body of one man. That man is the Antichrist who will stand upon the earth in the end of days. The different metal sections of the image define the kingdomss which shall arise. But, think of the image arising out of the ground first the head then the shoulders the abdomen the thighs and legs and the ankles, the feet and finally the ten toes. But, when accomplished the whole image stands as one man in the end of days upon the earth. It will possess the glory the might and the aspect of the kingdoms of which it came into existence. The weakness of the image is the miry clay. This doesn’t occur till the ankles/feet/toes area. Satan wants the Antichrist to have legs of iron without weakness just like Hitler desire the iro/steel of the German. The miry clay prevents this. The ten toes are the ten kingdoms that shall arise upon the earth at the same hour in the end of days. They aren’t kingdoms/kings of God. Daniel 7:4 tells us that the kingdom of God under Jesus will never be destroyed. It is represented as the stone that is taken out of the mountain (Israel) and sent down upon the toes of the image that obliterates the image of the beast. This is the second coming of Jesus Christ. There are verses that show that the coming of Jesus Christ is the coming of the kingdom of God in a physically literal way. The ten toes cannot be the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God never can be destroyed. The ten toes are.
Joman. |
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joman
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Mojo wrote: | | Rev 12:14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. |
| Nobby wrote: | MoJo, Who do you say is the woman is in your post?
Call me dumb, but is this by chance Jerusalem? |
The woman cannot be Jerusalem.
Revelation 12:13 states that the woman is the one that,
| Quote: | | "brought forth the man child." |
The man child is defined by Revelation 12:5 as the one who,
| Quote: | | "...was to rule all nations with a rod of iron." |
The word was refers to the fact that it is yet to come to pass but, had Israel received their king they would have seen it come to pass in ther day.
Further this man child was caught up unto God and his throne. This reveals by the facts of history that,, the man child is Jesus of Nazareth, of which these things are true, as is established by the written word of God.
As to cities...Bethlehem brought forth the man child Jesus not Jerusalem. As a type, cities are daughters.
In the parable of Revelation 12 concerning this woman she is carefully identified. The written word establishes her identity. First; she cannot be the church because the church is the body of Christ and the bride of Christ. It cannot be thought that Jesus will marry his mother.
But, regardless; the woman is identified in the written word.
The woman:
(1) She brought forth the man child Jesus.
(2) She is clothed with the sun.
(3) The moon is under her feet.
(4) She has twelve stars upon her head.
This whole image refers to the dream of Joseph. And, Joseph's father Jacob interpreted the dream. The sun is Jacob. The moon is Rachel (Jacob's true love). The stars are the sons of Jacob. (Genesis 37:10)
These all are types. The woman as I understand it is the Holy Spirit.
The mother of Jesus is the Holy Spirit (who overshadows as the wings of a hen does her children) manifested in the faithful upon earth: Abraham and his children (the children of faith).
The whole wonder of Jesus and all that pertains to his birth, life, death, burial and ressurection is worked out in heaven and manifested upon earth. After the ascention of Jesus Christ to his father’s throne as overcomer, war in heaven commences. The controversy and rebellion had been going on for ages. But, at the appointed time, Jesus, brought his blood into the court of heaven and overthrew all the vain philosophy of Satan, along with Satan’s power (the threat of death). With the debt’s paid the grace of God in Christ Jesus, is freely available to all who believe and the accuser has no means left of accusation. For, there is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus.
Michael is put to the task of throwing Satan out of heaven since, he was the archangel that said unto Satan, “The Lord rebuke you”, thus, showing that his heart had no spirit of rebellion in it but, rather, humble submission to God ordained authority.
The Devil is cast out of heaven. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! Time is running out. This whole chapter can be well understood. It has it’s subtleties nevertheless.
Joman. |
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MoJo
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3171
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you Joman.
Galatians 4:26 But jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
However, the various women in the bible like sarah and rachel symbolize spiritual Jerusalem.
We may be closer in agreement than you think, Joman, but for the sake of answering nobby, spiritual jerusalem is the correct answer.
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | | The miry clay prevents this. The ten toes are the ten kingdoms that shall arise upon the earth at the same hour in the end of days. They aren’t kingdoms/kings of God. |
clay in scripture is related to to our earthen vessels. i kind of held for no particular reason at all, that since, the feet are what walks,(goes), like the beautiful feet of a good tidings carrier only different, the mixture in the feet of iron and clay was the way the image would carry out his dominance.
like, say... taking over the world to establish democarcy. it is for all the kind, humane, reasons(clay) freedom, peace, prosperity...ect. but will be enforced with iron and strenght(military). it will promise with the coming of it's feet (freedom through military force) all the things it is made of, gold, silver, brass, prosperity.
democratic humanism spread by force. with freedom and jobs for everyone, once it comes to you. so to me this one last kingdom kind of makes for all the evil kingdoms made for in the image in one kingdom with parts of each kindom that went before. see? |
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joman
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Jim,
I understand your point but, verse Daniel 2:41 says that the potters clay equates to the kingdom being divided. Jesus said a kingdom divided shall not stand. therefore it is a weakness. For, myself I will say that the potters clay with it's water is that part of the kingdom that is affected by the Christian influence that will not provide the iron strength the devil demands.
Joman. |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3171
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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The 4th beast in Daniel is iron and brass. I went through every reference in the concordance pertaining to iron and brass. Most notably are these scriptures;
Duet 33:24: And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil.
25: Thy shoes shall be iron and brass; and as thy days, so shall thy strength be.
26: There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun, who rideth upon the heaven in thy help, and in his excellency on the sky.
27: The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
Joshua 19:24: And the fifth lot came out for the tribe of the children of Asher according to their families.
Jesus' feet -
Rev 1:15: And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; (iron furnace?) and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Duet 28:22: The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
23: And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
jesus' feet (brass, heaven) in the furnace (earth iron)
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | Jim,
I understand your point but, verse Daniel 2:41 says that the potters clay equates to the kingdom being divided. Jesus said a kingdom divided shall not stand. therefore it is a weakness. For, myself I will say that the potters clay with it's water is that part of the kingdom that is affected by the Christian influence that will not provide the iron strength the devil demands.
Joman. |
we're not far apart joman....it is a cause and effect thing. the devil will use much of the christian doctrine to push his agenda forward.
i see the clay as humanism, and the iron as strenght(might) and that is the guise that the image will walk in. just how i see it. but, we're not far apart on this. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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like this....
dan.8:23-25 and in the latter time of their kingdom, when the trangressors are come to the full, *a king of fierce countance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up*.(notice two things to look for about the man).
and his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and holy people. *and through his policy also shall cause craft to prosper* in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and*by peace shall destroy many*: *he shall also stand up*(on his feet) against the PRINCE OF PRINCES; but, he shall be broken without hand.(remeber the stone that smashed the feet of the image was cut without hands.) |
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