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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, all three together are God.
Yes, God stepped out of heaven and came to earth.
We mean the Son, The Father, and the Holy Spirit are one God. We mean exactly that, three are one. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| metothezero wrote: | Yes, all three together are God.
Yes, God stepped out of heaven and came to earth.
We mean the Son, The Father, and the Holy Spirit are one God. We mean exactly that, three are one. |
what i mean anyway. |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| So you say Jesus is God? Who was Jesus praying to then? |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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His Father. 
I have an idea, Cristina. I am currently in a one-on-one with Apoc. I would very much like to engage you in a one-on-one regarding the Trinity. What say you? Are you up for the challenge? |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sure, set it up and let me know! |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5894
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Trintiy is Baloney??? |
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| M Paul wrote: | I noticed belatedly that you quoted Thomas Jefferson. Therefore, I'd like to quote Jefferson also.
On March 4, 1805 President Jefferson prayed a National Prayer for Peace:
[snip] |
(Sorry, didn't check back on this thread until now)
And?
Does it in any way devalue the quote in my signature? |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5894
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: hmm... |
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| salvation12288 wrote: | | No evidence is necessary to believe in God, BUT there is evidence that there is a God. God is above logic and it is logical to believe in God. No contradictions there!!! |
Please note, I said "baloney," not "contradictory."
But very well. What evidence for God? What logical reason for God? |
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salvation12288
Little Hamster
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 78
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: hi |
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| There is alot of evidence, but I do not have time to write it out twice. Go into Evolutions forum and Evolutions is a fact? I stated that stuff there. |
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M Paul
Tadpole
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Zechariah 12:10: And I will pour upon the House of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and supplications: And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for this only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
I looked at this verse again in Hebrew just now, and the pronouns are consistent with the translation, me/him.
Regards,
Paul |
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M Paul
Tadpole
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But very well. What evidence for God? What logical reason for God? |
Actually, that is a topic for a new thread, which would last forever. I said that I would give a start to reviewing the evidence.
The Bible holds that the proof it is the word of God is based on predictive prophecy.
Isaiah 46:9,10 - " Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet to done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. " (KJV)
There are thousands of prophecy in Scripture. Let's review one prophecy that Christians maintain is extremely relevant to current events, the reestablishment of the nation of Israel in a single day. Note Ezekiel chp. 37, or in particular verse 22 (referencing the divided kingdoms of Israel, which resulted from the civil war following the death of Solomon): - "And I and will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore at all." Note Isaiah 66:8 - "Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." Note that under the Persian decree of 445 B.C., that the Temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt, Israel only became again a political state within the Persian Empire in a single day, not a nation. Under the Maccabean revolt, Israel became a nation again, but not in a single day. Only by papers signed through the United Nations on May 15, 1948, did Israel become a nation again in a single day.
However, the Bible indicates some precise dating. Note the position outlined in THE COMING PRINCE by Sir Robert Anderson. Nehemiah 2:1 indicates Persian decree on rebuilding the Temple was issued in the month of Nissan in the 20th year of Artaxerxes. The Talmud gives the day as the 1st of Nissan, and the Royal Observatory of Greenwich, UK, computed the date as March 14, 445 B.C. (For the following calculations, note that the Bible uses 360 day years - for example, Genesis 7:11, 24; 8:3,4; Esther 1:4; Revelation 11:2,3; 12:6; 13:5-7, cf. Daniel 7:25). Notes Daniel 9:24-27, which states that from the time of the commandment to restore Jerusalem, the Jews would have 70 weeks of years to be reconciled with God in regard to sin, which would involve the coming of the Messiah, who would be cut off after 69 weeks, before the events of the great tribulation in the last seven years would be played out. Note - 69 x 7 = 483 yrs., or 173,880 days in Biblical years, or April 6, 32, Palm Sunday. Or again - 3/14/445 BC to 3/14/32 = 476 yrs of 365 days, or 173,740 days + 116 leap days + 24 days from 3/14 to 4/6 = 173,880 days.
However, building on Anderson's work, scholars can also find the exact day of the recreation of Israel in Scripture. Ezekiel 4:3-6, indicates Israel would be punished 390 and 40 years. Jeremiah 25:11, indicates that the decree for the right of return would occur after 70 years. Only 360 years should have remained for the punishment at that time. However, only about 50,000 Jews returned then, but the great majority of them did not repent but remained in the Persian empire in the area of Iran and Iraq. Leviticus 26:17,18,21,23,24,27,28, indicates that if the Jews would not harken unto God, after he punished them by enemy conquest, he would multiply the penalty of their sin by seven. 360 x 7 = 2,520 years, or in 360 day years, 2483.8 years. (Note only one year between 1 BC and AD). 536 BC + 2483.8 = May 15, 1948.
As another example on prophecy, consider this interesting quote of Robert D. Culver, from CAN I TRUST THE BIBLE, pp 114,115. "According to a well-known story, Frederick the Great of Prussia, a famous doubter, once asked his court chaplain, 'Give me in one word a proof of the truth of the Bible.' The answer was simply, 'The Jews.'
"God chose them not because they were big, good, or famous (Deut. 7:7, 8 ), but simply on account of His sovereign love. Moses predicted that from the time to time they would be scattered from their land on account of unbelief and disobedience (Deut. 28:36,63 ff.) In dispersion they would be 'an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations whither the Lord shall lead them' (Deut. 28:37). Yet they were not to be scattered 'to destroy them utterly' (see Lev. 26, esp. verses 43-46). They would later return. The northern tribes were so evicted about the 722 B.C. (II Kings 17), and the mass of them have remained in dispersion to the present day. In a series of deportations from 605 to 586 B.C., the Babylonians took away the Jewish inhabitants of southern Palestine. Yet according to Moses' general prediction they were to return, and according to the prophecies of Jeremiah this was to take place in about 70 years (Jer. 25:11; cf. Dan. 9:1,2). And they did return, as reported in Ezra, Nehemiah and several of the minor prophets.
"They were still in Palestine when Jesus was born. Yet He predicted that their holy Jerusalem was soon to be destroyed (Matt. 24:1, 2) and that they would again be scattered. These things all took place within about a century. Yet Jesus also said that the nation of Israel would endure to the very end of this age (Matt. 24:34); the apostles expected their kingdom to return (Acts 1:6); Paul predicts their future conversion and restoration to divine favor (Rom. II, esp. verse 26). The last book of the Bible states that the Jews as a people will yet behold Jesus their Messiah and mourn for him (Rev. 1:7), and a host of Old Testament predictions indicate that they shall again possess their land (see esp. Jer. 31).
"It is just possible that we are seeing in the well-known recent events in Jewry and in Palestine the fulfillment, in part, of these prophecies. 'Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall never slumber nor sleep' (Ps. 121:4). 'Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: if those ordinances depart from before me, saith the lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever' (Jer. 31:35, 36). So the history of Israel through the centuries is a story of remarkable prophecy and its remarkable fulfillment."
One can spend a life time studying prophecy. However, another way the Word of God is proven is through the reliability of its world view. I have many examples of this from my own life, but I think this post is long enough for now.
Regards,
Paul |
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Bridget
Rattlesnake
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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So I presupposed what. That God is divided into three parts. He is so powerful He can do anything. That I know, He created everything, including you and me, I just don't think He had to have help doing it. I don't believe Jesus was with God when He created and I don't think He's a God now. That isn't a presuppossition, that's a statement of fact. The idea of a trinity comes from the pagan belief in trinities. The church from the time of the Apostle Paul brought pagans into the faith. After the death of the apostles and their successors, these pagans came into their own. With the help of Constantine and the council of Nicea in 325AD brought the trinity into the faith. I think you'd be surprised at how much history there is concerning the Christian faith. The church can't prove it's existance before the 4th century but there are many writings related to that period.
I would also say this, the Catholic church is a very big and powerful organization. It has beautiful Cathedrals and all it's ornate decorations, all these things were paid for by yours and others like you who contributed to make the church what it is. I don't think Jesus would enter into one of its many cathedrals when He returns. I don't think the church teaches what Jesus taught and all I'm saying is you have the power to change it, all you have to do is check it out. There is not trinity, it is not Biblical and it is an insult to God to claim it! |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't believe Jesus was with God when He created and I don't think He's a God now. |
We don't think He's a God either, we think He is the God...big difference. Do not card us as Witnesses just yet.
Also, You do not believe Jesus was with God when He created? Let us then see what John has to say about that.
Joh 1:3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
Now, I thought the Trinity was a confusing doctrine. What you present is even more confusing. How can Jesus not be with God when God created everything, YET everything be created through Jesus?
Let's see what Paul has to say as well...
Col 1:16 because by Him everything was created, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Once again Bridget, this just shows that your lies presented here are completely anti Scriptural. Perhaps if you could provide one Scriptural proof that Jesus was not with God when God created then you would have a case. Otherwise, any serious student of the word would much rather take the opinion of the disciple John and the apostle Paul and in so doing the witness of the Holy Spirit (but of course you probably discredit His testimony as well), rather than one who repeatedly presents her opinions devoid of any manner of proof and completely against the testimony of the Scriptures.
Bridget, notice the first word of the title of this forum? 'Bible'...strangely, we take the opinion of that over that of a fallible human for some reason... |
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Bridget
Rattlesnake
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Metothezero, I understand that you do not agree with me and that is your priveledge along with many others who support you, but I do not believe I have called you a liar, but now you have called me one. I will not accept that. There is only one liar between us and that's the man made church that has lied to both of us for centuries. I at one time accepted those lies.but I do not accept them today. Jesus said learn of me, and that's what I did, and what I hoped you would do. I guess those teachings are so deep in you, you cannot check out anything I say, so all you can do is call me a liar. That's a shame because I have spoken only the truth. I will not accept the man made doctrine that Jesus is part of a trinity, and the Catholic teaching that Jesus is God. John 1:1 has been given over and over again, it proves nothing. I'm really to tired to get into this and give you references in the Bible, I don't even think they'd do any good if I did. |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm really to tired to get into this and give you references in the Bible, I don't even think they'd do any good if I did. |
Well if you will not take the references that I have given that specifically prove your assertions as false why would you expect me to take yours?
I have given you two Scriptural references which specifically outright deny what you say and you still maintain the idea that you are right and everyone else wrong. |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Your two Scriptural references are from the new testament. Can you please give me one from the old testament! |
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