United States in revelations

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

mojo,
i'm not totally sure what you're saying but if your saying you think you know what i'm talking about,(not nescessarily that you agree with it ) thank you for not naming names. if your not saying that, then i'm not sure what your saying. please let me know one way or the other by saying"yes i think so" or "no thats my point". i hate to seem so dramatic, but i do live in the u.s. and use my real name.

messenger,
by your email request to me are you saying you agree to the terms of silence. post your respone on the board for us all to witness.yes or no.
p.s. it cannot even be refered to in future debates by you on the board.
i.e. trying to prove its not, unless someone else mentions it first.deal?

MoJo · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:

yes Jim, it was unfair of me to be so cryptic given I have no idea who you think the harlot is.

I will say this, the descriptions of Babylon the great and the descriptions of Jerusalem are similar are they not? However figuring out who is meant by the name Jerusalem is another matter. Revelation tells us that Jerusalem's spiritual name is Egypt and Sodom. If you don't want to openly say what you think, why don't you private message me. Very Happy

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

yes mojo,
i will be glad to do that, if you will read all of my post in this thread as it may point out why i think the way i do, and i've dropped hints, wrapped between statements of speculative fun, hoping someone else would figure it out, if your up on history (the real history and not revisionism. i'm awaiting an oppurtunity to challange some of that in another forum) and current events you may be able to figure out what i'm saying. if you will let me know you did that (read all my post in this thread, there not long. i will send the name immediately there after. please note it's just opinion.

TheMessenger · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:39 am Post subject:

I didnt email you because I try to keep my email address private until I know the person who gets my email address because I dont want spam. Incase you didnt know many foul people surf forums like this one and others just to collect email address's so they can send spam to it and payed for it. However I did send you a pm you should go check your pm inbox. As for the statment you made that your veiws on who babylon of end times is will offend people I say forget about them because if the Bible backs up your statements then no one should take offense.

I stand by my statement that the ancient city of babylon is babylon from end times. Why? Well besides my previous points there is a verse in the Bible that provides help to my claim. Isaiah 47:1 Clearly says ancient babylon will be buried but not destroyed. The babylon in end times gets destroyed Revelation 18:17 clearly says babylon will be brought to ruin, Revelation 18:21 says babylon will never be found again. Babylon in Isaiah is clearly ancient babylon because it doesnt get destoyed but punished. while the babylon in revelation gets destoys never to be found again. Both books cant be talking about babylon of the same time period because they contradict each other and another little fact that I think should be pointed out is the babylon of Isaiah is not riding on the beast yet .

Also lets be clear no Christian should fear the end times. Why? Because those things must come to pass before we get to be with God again and the point of christianty is to be cleansed of sin through the blood of the lamb so we can reconnect with God in the end times.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

messenger, do you even read what i write?

TheMessenger · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject:

Yes I read all of your posts as I do everyone else's posts.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

messenger,
i ask you to post on the board for all to witness, your answer to our agreement, and you started babbling about fear.please, as i said nothing
about fear, don't try to assume other peoples emotions, or throw up a block for not agreeing by thinking you can make me tell you without said agreement. watch what you imply about others least you be found guilty of breaking commandment #9. if you cannot agree publicly to silence then just say so and will drop the issue. but know i'm not a person who can be manipulated. "you assummme to mmuch".

messenger said,
is.47:1 clearly states the ancient city of babylon will be buried and not destroyed.

is.47:1 come down, and sit in the dust, o virgin daughter of babylon, sit
on the ground: there is no throne o daughter of the chaldeans for thou
shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

let's see:
1.come down=hbrw=yaw-rad=to descend, to go downwards, to bring down, cast down' take down. 2. *sit=yaw-shab=to sit down, to dwell , remain, settle, marry, fail, haunt.* 3.in= not in original hbrw. text 4.dust=aw-fawr=dust, ashe, dust, mud, ground. 5.*sit= same as above def.* 6. on=al= above, over, upon, against. 7.ground=eh-rets=to be firm; the earth.

i can't see how it says that at all much less clearly.

messenger said,
is. 47:1 clearly says ancient babylon will be buried and not destroyed.

GOD said,
jer.50:13 because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate; everyone that goes by babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.
jer.50:39-40 therefore the *wild beasts of the desert* with the *wild beasts of the islands* shall no-more dwell there and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited forever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. as GOD overthrew sodom and gomorrah and the neighbor cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there; neither shall any son of man dwell therein.

who to believe? GOD or messenger? humm...
what happened to sodom and gomorrah?

messenger,
has any ever taught you the o.t. is a foreshadowing of the n.t. and what was done to the babylon of the o.t. was be done to the one of the n.t.
and we already established that GOD gives physical places spiritual names after the cultures they think and act like. and what is said to one is said to the other for GOD is no respecter of persons.
why do you keep looking forward?
the hour is much later then you think.

both the foreshadowed babylon and the n.t. babylon fit the description for the punishment. as both have been punished a like. and rev. 17-18 gives a very easy to understand desciption of who the babylon of the new testament is and fits its to a tee.

one more hint,
rev.18:6 reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her, *double according to her works:* in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

its as simple as i am

TheMessenger · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:28 am Post subject:

What I have said has not gone againest God or his Word. Please lets review this verse so that you may see your slander of me is uncalled for. Below you will find a detailed list of the phrases/words used in this verse that relate to babylon being buried instead of being destroyed, along with the official definitions of the Word/Phrase from Merriam-Webster . The Red arrows show what definition of a given word/phrase that can be applied to babylon being buried and/or not destroyed.

Isaiah 47:1 {NIV}
"Go down, sit in the dust, Virgin Daughter of Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, Daughter of Babylonians. No more will you be called tender or delicate."

Go Down: {7}{5}
Function: Intransitive Verb
1. : To go below the horizon. <
2. : To fall to or as if to the ground. <
3. : To become submerged. <
4. : To admit of being swallowed. <
5. : To find acceptance.
6. : To come to be remembered especially in posterity.
7. : To undergo defeat or failure. <

Sit : {14}{7}
Function: Verb
1. : To rest on the buttocks or haunches. <
2. : To occupy a place as a member of an official body.
3. : To hold a session : be in session for official business.
4. : To cover eggs for hatching. <
5. : To take a position for having one's portrait painted or for being photographed.
6. : To serve as a model.
7. : To have one's dwelling place. <
8. : To lie or hang relative to a wearer.
9. : To affect one with or as if with weight.
10.: To lie. <
11.: To rest. <
12.: To have a location. <
13.: To remain inactive or quiescent. <
14.: To please or agree with one -- used with with and an adverb.

In : {6}{3}
Function: Preposition
1. : Used as a function word to indicate inclusion, location, or position within limits. <
2. : Into. <
3. : Used as a function word to indicate means, medium, or instrumentality.
4. : Used as a function word to indicate limitation, qualification, or circumstance.
5. : Used as a function word to indicate purpose. <
6. : Used as a function word to indicate the larger member of a ratio.

Dust : {9}{5}
Function: Noun
1. : Fine particles of matter (as of earth). <
2. : The particles into which something disintegrates.
3. : Something worthless.
4. : A state of humiliation. <
5. : The earth especially as a place of burial. <
6. : The surface of the ground. <
7. : Confusion.
8. : Disturbance.
9. : A single particle (as of earth). <

Tender : {23}{14}
Function: Adjective
1. : Having a soft or yielding texture : easily broken, cut, or damaged. <
2. : Delicate. <
3. : Fragile. <
4. : Easily chewed
5. : Succulent.
6. : Physically weak : not able to endure hardship.
7. : Immature. <
8. : Young. <
9. : Incapable of resisting cold : not hardy.
10.: Marked by, responding to, or expressing the softer emotions.
11.: Fond
12.: Loving. <
13.: Showing care. <
14.: Considerate. <
15.: Solicitous.
16.: Highly susceptible to impressions or emotions.
17.: Impressionable. <
18.: Appropriate or conducive to a delicate or sensitive constitution or character. <
19.: Gentle.
20.: Mild. <
21.: Delicate or soft in quality or tone. <
22.: Dear. <
23.: Precious. <

As you can see in Isaiah 47:1 God choose to use words that mean burial/inactive/innocence but not destroyed. Also lets be clear if Isaiah 47 was refering to the end times babylon then it would contradict Revelation 18, because many times in Revelation 18 it said babylon would be brought to ruin (destroyed). Revelation 18:21 ties the babylon of end times in with Isaiah 47's babylon because revelation 18:21 states babylon will never be found again. Something can not be found again if it has never been found to begin with.
If the babylon of end times was not found then the angel would not have used the word again because again means to repeat.

TheMessenger · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:

I dont know if you have had a change to see anceint babylon in iraq yet so here is a LINK. All the pictures were takin by a USA Marine stationed in iraq, you can even see our troops in a couple of the pictures. I trying to video of babylon so i can get a better look at it, but judging from the pictures saddam did a pretty good job at rebuilding babylon. Some of the pictures are simply stunning see how babylon was built long before christ came to earth (1st time). Click Here this page as a few more great pictures. We should be greatful God choose our generation to full fill all of these prophecies.

MoJo · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:37 am Post subject:

Okay, Jim, I've read through all your posts twice. Would love to hear who you think the harlot is. I don't know why you feel you can't say it publicly, but I'll respectfully keep silent about anything you say to me in a PM. Very Happy

Here's something interesting about the beast.

Rev 13:1: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2: And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Hosea 13:4: Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
5: I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought.
6: According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
7: Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8: I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them

Very Happy

HeKkLeR · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:56 am Post subject:

I always connected the United States to Revelation 13.

Revelation 13:11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon.

As far as who the harlot is, I have my own thoughts. I posted them somewhere on this board long ago, I could dig them up if anyone thinks it would add to the conversation.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

messenger,
don't see your point as your own work keeps supporting my agruement.
to bad you just can't see it, but that's what happens when we get dogmatic about things we know nothing about. and i noticed you didn't agree to the terms of silence so i'll take that to mean that you plan on going against my wishes when i give you the info so, in light of that the issue is dropped, as far as were concerned. GOD bless.

hekkler,
yes, i've learned to be interested in every thing you've had to say since i've been coming to this sight. so any opinion or insight you have to offer is more than welcome as far as i'm concerned.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

mojo,
thanks, and its coming to you very soon. i'll just give you the answer first,
and the why's later. also by what i've discovered, i believe i have the anwser to the 8 kings figured out also. but, please be reminded that it is just my opinion, which could change with the next news broadcast. by the way, i've read your "two cents worth" on baptism, it's worth a million dollars.

TheMessenger · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:50 am Post subject:

I never used any source material outside the bible with the exception of the news websites and the dictionary.. The words of man mean very little to me when compared to the words of God. Everything I have put forth has grounds with-in the Bible its self, which I made clear by posting the verses and the official definitions of the words with-in the verses. I simply picked up my bible and studied it, as we all should. Jesus commanded us to study the prophecies of the Bible so that we can know when his coming is near or even at the door. Please refer to Matthew 23:32. Alot of people feel America is babylon of end times but I have presented verses that show there is more to babylon of end times than just being sinful so in my opinion it is impossible for America to be babylon for the simple reason that America doesnt fit the profile of babylon completly.

If you have insight into who babylon is then present your argument along with verses from the Bible that back your statements up. I must ask you why are you even here in this discussion if you are unwilling to express your views.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

messenger,
one more time, i never said america was babylon that is what you perceived me to say. but we are in bed with babylon. and by the way i have expressed my views and as far as our statement about your sources i don't know what you're taking about, but mine came from the same place you say yours did so where does that leave us. one more thing, i posted verses already that shows how we do relate to babylon in ways more than just sinfulness. but sometimes you and i both only see what we want to see in each others writing.nothing but love for you. jim

its a simple as i am