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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: |
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if God can turn into a man, then why can't an angel turn into a man? why cant all the angels turn into into people?
How do you know for sure you are not an angel?
Why can't the father spirit #1 and the holy ghost spirit #3 turn into a man?
That does not seem very fair that only one of the 3 spirits turned into a man. If God is 3 spirits shouldn't they all have become men so they can all know what it is like to be a man and suffer for the crowning of glory?
In the pictures, theres 3 guys sitting on three thrones.
Shouldn't they have all taken on the sins of the world? If you cannot seperate God because all 3 spirits are one, then all 3 spirits would have had to taken on either the same body or 3 individual bodies.
Actually you would have had to of crammed all three spirits into marys womb, then she would have had triplets or a baby with 3 heads.
Spirit #2 got the raw end of the deal.
Mary would have exploded just before impact because that is just how big and powerful the ONE God with ONE spirit I know is! 
Christina explained John 1 the way she sees it. I understand the way she sees it & I have never even heard it told that way before.
Dont forget the devil should turn into a man at sometime too. Why doesnt God put all the sins of the world on the devil and make him suffer on the cross?. The devil is the one who tricked Eve into falling in the first place and Adam just followed right along.
You guys just dont get it 
Jesus was a man. |
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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | Smoke says,
If it is ok with you all, can we get back to the studying the man Christ Jesus?
Star replies
Sure, but I have one question... after the flesh or the Spirit?   |
we will definately be studying Jesus after the flesh
for the next year... it appears everyone has overlooked it.  |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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I do not think you will find any disagreement here. I understand fully and believe entirely that when the Scriptures say Jesus is a man, was a man, then that is the truth. Jesus was a man, we all agree...
(Bolding something, and putting it in bigger fonts validates your claims less than using Scriptural proof or logical evidence, those would be helpful!) |
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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thankyou metothezero
 Jesus is a man.
Heb3:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
1 Tim.2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Cor 15:21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
Rom5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom1:23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Heb 3:12?
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
Heb 7:24
| Quote: | Heb 7:24
(ALT) on the other hand the One because of His remaining into the age [fig., forever] has the priesthood permanently.
(ASV) but he, because he abideth for ever, hath his priesthood unchangeable.
(BBE) But this priest, because his life goes on for ever, is unchanging.
(CEV) But Jesus will never die, and so he will be a priest forever!
(DRB) But this, for that he continueth for ever, hath an everlasting priesthood:
(EMTV) But He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
(ESV) but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.
(GNB) But Jesus lives on forever, and his work as priest does not pass on to someone else.
(GNT) ὁ δὲ διὰ τὸ μένειν αὐτὸν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα ἀπαράβατον ἔχει τὴν ἱερωσύνην·
(HNV) But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.
(KJV+) But1161 this3588 man, because he846 continueth3306 ever,1519, 165 hath2192 an unchangeable531 priesthood.2420
(KJVA) But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
(MKJV) but He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
(MSG) But Jesus' priesthood is permanent. He's there from now to eternity
(YLT) and he, because of his remaining--to the age, hath the priesthood not transient, |
Using a preferred translation to the elimination of the true meaning of the passage.
1 Tim 2:5, 1Cor 15:2, Rom 5:15 all refer to a specific accomplishment, speaking of the work of Jesus, which necessarily had to be done by man, or a man. Which is why God became man to accomplish this purpose.
None of these verses deny the deity of Jesus, they only confirm His humanity, the necessary humanity in which to be a suitable sacrifice, an uncorrupted man, sinless, without sin, who would be the suitable sacrifice for mankind. What you fail to acknowledge is that A man could not be this suitable sacrifice, because A man cannot be sinless and without sin.
Rom 1:23 speaks of the voluntary exchange by Adam of the gifts of God's Glory for the desires of man. Through his sin he gave up his birthright, and his descendent's continue to exchange the glory of God for their own glories.
So Jesus was a man, we all agree. But He was not JUST a man, he was God in human incarnation. Disprove that if you can. |
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Bridget
Rattlesnake
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Heb 3:24 This chapter of Hebrews from 3:7 on is a warning to Israel and quotes Psalm95 in the Old Testament.
Heb7: 22 Thus has Jesus become the guarantee of a better covenant. Under the old covenant there were many priests bacause they were prevented by death from remaining in office; but Jesus, becasue he remains forever, has a priethood which does not pass away. There fore he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he forever lives to make intercession for them.
Are you saying that because Jesus is high priest permanently that's why you think He's a God. No, you really can't take things out of context in the Bible. If you start at the beginning of Chapter 7 of Hebrews this explains it more.
Read 1Timothy 2:5 This is discussing the conduct first of men and women
and then the qualifications of Various Ministers.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul is discussing the resurrection. In 1Cor 15:26
When finally, all has been subjected to the Son, he will then subject himself to the One who made all things subject to him so that God may be all in all.
I'm not going to go all through the scriptures you quoted. None of them have made Christ a deity. The reason you believe this is because you don't understand the Jewish tradition of what a priest is. |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:39 am Post subject: |
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As I do not necessarily understand where this discussion is going. I have confirmed my belief in the humanity of Christ, and Smoke has presented Scripture presenting the priesthood of our LORD. For what reason, I do not know. As we have all agreed that Jesus is a man, and that He is the priest. With no one attempting to prove His deity, only confirming His humanity, let me therefore ask a simple question, for Smoke and Bridget.
Do you worship Jesus? |
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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:41 am Post subject: |
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JP if you wish to use bibles that are constantly changing the Word of God that is your choice. I will not TOPIC study with anyone who uses another altered version of the bible. The Word of God has been altered many many times. So if you like to keep accepting and altering the scriptures with those who do it, you might be held accountable with them.
I will only use one bible, the very first that God made available to us in English. I dont need to go back and forth between altered bibles to find the Truth.
JP-Jesus learned obedience. You should try it.
I am still waiting for a first witness that says word for word-
God is a man and Jesus is God.
That is your interpretation. Since it is not from the Bible it could be considered a lie.
The bible says GOD IS NOT A MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE, NEITHER THE SON OF MAN.
Your belief comes from mythical ideas that stem from over 5,000 years old. I will not subject myself to any pagan idea or myth.
A good book for you to start to see that mangods are myth, is called the Golden Bow. It fits right in with your godman idea.
Another good book for you is called the Jesus Mysteries.
You will be devoured by these people when the facts and evidence are presented. That is why I do not believe in any pagan myth.
JP- it should be very easy for you to believe that God gave eternal life and imortality to a man. Because that is our only hope in Jesus.
Lets get back to Jesus, the son of man
Now we have four witnesses that declare Jesus is a man. One in type and three that show him in his present immortality.
Tomorrow we begin knocking down the Roman myths. One by one, using scripture. We will start with the forgiveness of sin through the man Christ Jesus.
May I please have the permission of the moderators to use
King James Version ONLY throughout the entire thread please.
Thankyou kindly. |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Smoke, was the KJV the first made available in English??
Perhaps you would not mind if I use the first made available to man, in the Koine Greek perhaps, would that be allright for our discussion? |
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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:51 am Post subject: |
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to metothezero, the answer is NO.
the KJV only. If you wish to use another bible, you should start a thread of your own and study that bible.
Thankyou |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Very well then. If you choose to use a man made translation over the text from which it was translated, I will submit to your decision, as I realize it will help your case none.
You still have not answered my question...do you worship Jesus? |
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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| metothezero wrote: | Very well then. If you choose to use a man made translation over the text from which it was translated, I will submit to your decision, as I realize it will help your case none.
You still have not answered my question...do you worship Jesus? |
We will get to to the greek & hebrew, dont worry about that.
I worship God through Jesus. Similiar to the way it was set up in the tabernacle. You cannot get to God unless you go through the mediator who is the man Christ Jesus.
1 Tim.2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
metothezero- You should believe whatever it is that you want to believe. You are going to believe what you believe anyway so I dont really have a case that needs helping. But you just may be able to help.
Peace brother. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:08 am Post subject: |
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So we have confirmed, time and again that Jesus is was a man. What we have not done is discussed if Jesus was only a man. I wonder why?
| Quote: | JP if you wish to use bibles that are constantly changing the Word of God that is your choice. I will not TOPIC study with anyone who uses another altered version of the bible. The Word of God has been altered many many times. So if you like to keep accepting and altering the scriptures with those who do it, you might be held accountable with them.
I will only use one bible, the very first that God made available to us in English. I dont need to go back and forth between altered bibles to find the Truth. |
I'm sorry you feel that way. I have faith in the power and wisdom of my Lord that the scriptures He has given us today are sufficient for His purpose. I trust in Him enough to believe that He would retain the truth of His Word through the ages. If you do not have that trust that is your demon to deal with.
I also know enough about language and linguistics to understand that the KJV is far from the most accurate translation of the original Greek and Hebrew, and that archeological and historical discoveries through the centuries have expanded our understanding of those languages and thier uses far beyond that of the scholars employed by King James.
| Quote: | | JP-Jesus learned obedience. You should try it |
Who is it exactly that you would like me to obey? you?
| Quote: | I am still waiting for a first witness that says word for word-
God is a man and Jesus is God. |
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God; his name was John.
Joh 1:7 This one came as a witness, to bear witness concerning the Light, so that all might believe through him.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 He was the true Light; He enlightens every man coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.
Joh 1:15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, This was He of whom I spoke: He who comes after me has been before me, for He was preceding me.
Joh 1:16 And out of His fullness we all have received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
| Bridget wrote: | | Are you saying that because Jesus is high priest permanently that's why you think He's a God. |
Dearheart, no one has said that Jesus is A God. You keep saying that and it is not true. Trinity doctrine says that Jesus IS God, the God, the One True God. |
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Smoke
Goldfish
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:11 am Post subject: |
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this is not about bibles and languages. it is about the bible and the man Christ Jesus. The KJV is the first and most widely accepeted. Like I said you can read all the bibles you want.
| Quote: | | Dearheart, no one has said that Jesus is A God. You keep saying that and it is not true. Trinity doctrine says that Jesus IS God, the God, the One True God |
You lie. I said Jesus was a man, never said he was A god. the three headed DOCTRINE as you call it (which is also a lie) is not in the bible. it is a man made religion from pagan myth and it corrupts both the father and the son.
So sorry you believe in pagan myth because it very boring and old.
Your words are not true, they are not in the bible sir. It is only your belief.
When you use made up phrases, you cannot stand on the Word of God.
If it is not in Bible, it is a lie.
Since I dont have time to discuss things not related to the subject (the trinity DOCTRINE and different bibles is not related, the HUMANITY of Christ is also not what we are discussing) and I dont appreciate Rev telling me what I supposedly said, & I dont have time for metothezero telling me what I dont understand, I am asking for the thread to be moved to a private discussion with anyone who is not a three headed God believer.
I am not mad or upset, I just do not have time for this.
I will be off for the weekend .You all have a good one.
Bridget said it best, you do not understand the OT priesthood or the NT priesthood. You do, but only in part.
The man Christ Jesus is The express image of the invisible God. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:31 am Post subject: |
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It would help if you would quote correctly and not respond so testily to that which was not directed to you:
I wrote:
| Quote: | Bridget wrote:
| Quote: | | Are you saying that because Jesus is high priest permanently that's why you think He's a God. |
Dearheart, no one has said that Jesus is A God. You keep saying that and it is not true. Trinity doctrine says that Jesus IS God, the God, the One True God. |
To which you responded unnecessarily: You lie. I said Jesus was a man, never said he was A god.
| Smoke wrote: | When you use made up phrases, you cannot stand on the Word of God.
If it is not in Bible, it is a lie. |
Then TV is a lie, automobiles are a lie, cancer is a lie, Easter is a lie, a lot of things are a lie, a lot of doctrine is a lie. If your basis for truth is the word existing in scritpure then you have a very tough row to hoe. |
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