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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hi JonMarie..
Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Luk 22:39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
Luk 22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
Luk 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Luk 22:45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
Luk 22:46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
Luk 22:47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
Luk 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
(what is the scrip? that he who had it was to take)
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Luk 22:49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
Luk 22:50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
Luk 22:51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
Luk 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
Luk 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
Luk 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
Luk 22:55 And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
Luk 22:56 But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
Luk 22:57 And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
Luk 22:58 And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
Luk 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
Luk 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the *Male Rooster* crew.
Luk 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the *Male Rooster* crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Luk 22:62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
Jos 24:27 And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.
Did Judas know the (food words) in the scrip (leather pouch) he was given and the role he was given to play?
| Quote: | | God did not make Judas betray Jesus, but in knowing that he would, was put into the place of circumstance to fulfill Gods plan. |
That's right..Judas didn't fall asleep like the others. He was doing the work he was given to do.
| Quote: | Nobodys Perfect???? Do you really put yourself in the same category as Judas? You do realize that Jesus refered to Judas as the son of perdition(hell).
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. |
Judas was a son of the false Jewish system (the synagogue of Satan) which accused Jesus and killed him. And it is that Jewish sytem which was lost..destroyed even, in 70 AD.
Do I put myself in the same catagory as Judas?
If I was given a job to do I would hope I would fulfill the dispensation given me to fulfill as well as Judas did.
You think because they thought Judas was a thief, that God didn't use this against the very system which produced thieves themselves?
I suppose Judas appeared as a good little sheep doing the Jews a favour by bringing Jesus to them. But what they didn't know was that Judas was a wolf in sheeps clothing setting them up so theywould reveal their true colors.
Do you believe that Jesus knew that Judas would hang himself on a tree, thereby stating that he too would be a curse by hanging on the cross to remove the curse of those who were hung on a tree.
Do you believe the Lord would give someone a job to do, and after having done it would not make restitution for a job well done?
| Quote: | Matthew 22:11-13 11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. |
most if not all parables refer to the king or kingdom which is in charge at the time.
Jesus is showing us that this is what wil be done to himself.
The wedding garment refers tobeing a sinner like them.
Jesus was brought before Pilate..I find no fault in him,
and he spoke not a word.
and they bound him and cast him out of their kingdom and hanged him on the cross..
this being a curse and he would be sent to hell..
in their way of reasoning...
Sometimes they actually percieved he was talking about them, but they was truly blind..and thought he was talking about hmm..somebody else. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
These are Jesus' words.
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Are you a person who has a hard time believing that anyone goes to hell?
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
LT, are you saying that you think this verse is refering to Judas?
Lt writes: | Quote: | | That's right..Judas didn't fall asleep like the others. He was doing the work he was given to do. |
yes, the work he was given to do by Satan
John 13:27And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Jesus knew the evil that was present, Jesus did not command the evil to be done, only that it be done quickly
Lt:If I was given a job to do I would hope I would fulfill the dispensation given me to fulfill as well as Judas did.
We are given a job to do, by God:Matthew 16:24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 9:23 23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Matthew 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 17:56
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mark 9:7
And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Luke 9:35
And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hi JonMarie,
| Quote: | | Are you a person who has a hard time believing that anyone goes to hell? |
hmm, no not at all.
But it depends on "when" and "where" and "what" you believe this "hell" is.
I believe "hell" as some call it, to be God's all consuming fire, holy spirit which purges out all unrighteousness from our hearts and minds. And for some this last only a short while..their conscience is wakened **what have I done** 
during this time is the hottest of all. And it breaks and crumbles and causes to fall all that is prideful and envious and greedy..etc..
This purifying process duration depends on the one going through it, and how long it takes them to be converted from self-righteous, hateful, spiteful, old crows.
to a humble, loving, gentle, new dove.
This is what I consider the chastisement of the Lord.
And every child of God must go through it.
This is so cool!
compare these verses with what took place in the book of acts..
Deu 11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Deu 11:2 And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,
Deu 11:3 And his miracles, and his acts, which he did in the midst of Egypt unto Pharaoh the king of Egypt, and unto all his land;
Deu 11:4 And what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red sea to overflow them as they pursued after you, and how the LORD hath destroyed them unto this day;
Deu 11:5 And what he did unto you in the wilderness, until ye came into this place;
Deu 11:6 And what he did unto Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, the son of Reuben: how the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and their tents, and all the substance that was in their possession, in the midst of all Israel:
Deu 11:7 But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did.
Deu 11:8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;
Deu 11:9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
Act 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Act 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
I can't imagine how much Paul's conscience truly convicted him all the time he was learning to love and cherish those he once cast in prisons and persecuted and murdered. I suppose this truly ate at his heart and mind.
And if that isn't hell JonMarie, I don't know what is.
But what we do see is, God's grace being shed upon even the most unlikely fire breathing dragons on earth and changing them into very awesome and wonderful gifts for the rest of his children.
And making them into examples so that when these things come upon us, we don't have to fear concerning the fiery trial which we all enter. He shows us that in the end, all things are for good.
Whether we agree or disagree how it comes about isn't important. The important message is that even though we can be the very scum of the earth, God is able to clean us up, and purge us from our sins, place us in the body where he needs us to be, and teach us that his grace is sufficient for us all.
Daniel wasn't afraid to go into the fiery furnace. He had faith that God would see him through.
Jer 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bstards, and not sons. Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
There is now, no more condemnation for those who walk in the Lord..We have been chastened..and tried..and purged..and are clean from the deceptions and lies of the world.
But the whole world will face condemnation and be chastened and tried and purged..and all will be clean from deceptions and lies in the world.
And then the light will swallow up darkness..and no one will have to say.."know the Lord", for we shall all know him from the least to the greatest.
I suppose it depends on whether one considers hell a "negative" experienc or a "positive" one.
I am of the positive opinion.
God Bless JonMarie,
lone |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Lone, you wrote: | Quote: | I believe "hell" as some call it, to be God's all consuming fire, holy spirit which purges out all unrighteousness from our hearts and minds. And for some this last only a short while..their conscience is wakened **what have I done**
during this time is the hottest of all. And it breaks and crumbles and causes to fall all that is prideful and envious and greedy..etc..
This purifying process duration depends on the one going through it, and how long it takes them to be converted from self-righteous, hateful, spiteful, old crows.
to a humble, loving, gentle, new dove. |
Humility is essential in this process
You have confused hell fire with Gods refining fire.
You are correct in saying that it is a process that all God's children must go through.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bstards, and not sons. Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
We, as God's Children go through this process many times throughout our walk, not over and over the same
ground but each time on a higher refine.
| Quote: | | Lone :And if that isn't hell JonMarie, I don't know what is. |
In this process we cry out to God and draw near to Him for comfort and guidance. Many Psalms are David's expression of this process.
Lone, may I suggest you visit "Bible-gateway" an on line Bible in whichever version you prefer and do a topical study on hell and on the refining fire of the Holy Spirit.
It is an invaluable resource tool.
Lone: | Quote: | Daniel wasn't afraid to go into the fiery furnace. He had faith that God would see him through.
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Either way, it was a win win situation for Daniel.
Daniel indeed was a man of great faith, and in examining the life of Daniel, we see the chastisement of the Lord and the fruit it produced. Daniel's character also embodies the character of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Lone, I suspect you are a very tenderhearted person, who would suffer, for believing that you may have hurt someone. In other words, I don't think you have a mean bone in your body. So, it makes me wonder if you have a difficult time, in thinking that anyone is, or will be, eternally separated from God? |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2661
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Judas |
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| Steen wrote: | Here is something that has always bothered me.
Judas is listed as the villain of weak character who betrayed Jesus.
Jesus does admonish Judas when he is actually pointed out to the Priests and thus to the Romans, and Jesus does seem to show some distress about Judas " betray the Son of man with a kiss." (Luke 22:47)
But on the other hand, if Judas had NOT done so, what would have happened? |
Jesus would have died right on schedule as predicted in the Scriptures.
| Quote: |
Is Judas to some extent one of the heroes? |
Every person who keeps one foot in the world, and one foot in Christianity will do as Judas did.
In the Mark of the Beast scenerio soon to come, we are told the mother and fathers will betray their God-fearing children.
Children will betray the mothers and fathers also.
Friends, will betray each other.
ALL this will be done........
John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2438
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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By what mechanism would Jesus have died at exactly the right time if he had not been betrayed?
Built a cross for Himself and jumped up onto it? Maybe force the Sanhedrin to have an illegal meeting and there confess He was the messiah without a betrayal. Or lastly actually foment a rebellion (given an appropriate lead time) and then surrender to Pilot just in time for the Passover. None of these were needed since the betrayal was arraigned ahead of time instead.
From what I know, not only was there a yearly schedule for this particular sacrifice (at Passover)but a larger calendar that had to be met also. It had to happen on a particular Passover where there was 72 hours between Passover and First Fruits which was once every 7 years. So that Jesus' death could fulfill both celebrations. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Hi JonMarie,
| Quote: | Lone, may I suggest you visit "Bible-gateway" an on line Bible in whichever version you prefer and do a topical study on hell and on the refining fire of the Holy Spirit.
It is an invaluable resource tool. |
I just recently downloaded e-sword, and I also use www.blueletterbible.org
But I will check out this bible-gateway also. Thankyou. 
| Quote: | | Lone, I suspect you are a very tenderhearted person, who would suffer, for believing that you may have hurt someone. In other words, I don't think you have a mean bone in your body. So, it makes me wonder if you have a difficult time, in thinking that anyone is, or will be, eternally separated from God? |
Thankyou for saying so JonMarie. I haven't always been so, that's for sure.. 
And I'm just a imperfect human..
So imagine how much more difficult it would be for God himself to choose to leave those who follow their flesh impulses, to leave them in tormenting flame for all eternity..
If me being a sinner just a mere mortal has a hard time excepting that, then how much more an all loving and forgiving and merciful God?
I do believe that evil will have to pay a heavy price. It will take a lot of purifying to eradicate evil itself from the world. And every person has been made responsible for putting evil away from themselves.
Some are just weak and overcome by it. And God knows this.
would you like to do a study on hell?
I would like to hear and share your thoughts about it.
Do you believe that hell and babylon have anything in common? I find a lot of references of Babylon going through a lot of trials and punishments.
I think they may be related somehow.
hugs JonMarie..
(at one time I wold have let the whole world burn in hell forever, then I realized, I' dhave to throw myself in too because I am just as unworthy. But God's grace is what saves us. Praise God!)
lone |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2661
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | By what mechanism would Jesus have died at exactly the right time if he had not been betrayed?
Built a cross for Himself and jumped up onto it? |
The cross was never suppose to be used in order for Jesus to die upon.
And, Yes, I know it was predicted in the OT, BUT that does not mean it was God's will Jesus die that way.
God allowed satan to do what he did, to show satan's hatred of Jesus, as God....to the world.
Satan inspired men, to do what they did. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi 45,
I can see the parable of the two sons who are sent to do their father's will. And the one says I go and doesn't and the other says I won't go and does..concerning Peter and Judas.
I also find it odd how Peter is named first and Judas last.
and many that are last shall be first.
They all gave their lives willingly for the Lord.
Any of them at any time could have just turned and said..I'm not going to follow you into death.
I believe Peter is the one who Jesus is talking about when he says concerning the one who betrays him.
Judas didn't betray him. He more than confessed him before men, he kissed him.
Knowing that Jesus had to be betrayed..Judas could have not showed up at all..
There was no money in Judas' bag when Jesus sent him out. He was to go and collect 30 pieces of silver..which is the very amount spoken of in the scriptures. Maybe he had to rangle for that and barter so that it would be fulfilled. Timing was everything.
It was Peter I believe who would have been chosen but he said..Thou shalt not surely die... 
And Jesus rebuked him because he knew his Lord's will but was not willng to see it through.
Judas on the other hand went and did.
Peter denied him three times, Thomas doubted him, Judas betrayed him, they all strove for the greatest seats..I mean, which ones were perfect? They were all sinners..same as us.
So if we convict Judas we might as well be putting a bullet to our own heads too, because at one point or another we have all done the same thing.
Maybe not by words or actions but thoughts even..
There is none righteous no not one. We are all guilty and that is why God came to save the world. Because we could not save ourselves...(including Judas).
But it was Judas who was sent, and it was Judas who went out, and it was Judas who did what he had to do quickly..and so the scriptures were fulfilled which is what Jesus came to do. So he could put an end to that world and begin a new. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I missed this earlier;
45 you wrote: | Quote: | | Jesus was hardly the only one claiming to be the messiah and while all the rest of them were military rebellion leaders probably didn't make the Jesus we know out to be much of anything. |
probably didn't make the Jesus we know out to be much of anything???
How many of the others who claimed to be the Messiah, healed the sick, raised the dead, gave sight to the blind, fed ten thousand, etc.,etc.,??? |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Lone , when you referenced the above verse, are you taking the word "scrip" to be script? like in a play or scrip as in a perscription? In Harpers bible dictionary, if you place any value in that,they define scrip as a bag like a knapsack, usually of leather for carrying good and provisions one would use for going on a trip. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Lone you wrote: | Quote: | I believe Peter is the one who Jesus is talking about when he says concerning the one who betrays him.
Judas didn't betray him. He more than confessed him before men, he kissed him. |
I am amazed you can believe this in light of:
Mark 14:41 Then He came the third time and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? It is enough! The hour has come; behold, the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Luke 9:44“Let these words sink down into your ears, for the Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men.”
Luke 22:22And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!”
Luke 22:48But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
John 6:71He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray Him,
Mark 14:19-2119 And they began to be sorrowful, and to say to Him one by one, “Is it I?” And another said, “Is it I?”[a]
20 He answered and said to them, “It is one of the twelve, who dips with Me in the dish. 21 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”
Jesus never used the word "betray" as an act that Peter did. He used "deny" they are two completely different meanings.
Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said,[a] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
These scriptures leave no doubt as to who it was that betrayed Jesus. I hope you now agree, and don't be so quick to jump to false conclusions. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Lone, you wrote: | Quote: | So imagine how much more difficult it would be for God himself to choose to leave those who follow their flesh impulses, to leave them in tormenting flame for all eternity..
If me being a sinner just a mere mortal has a hard time excepting that, then how much more an all loving and forgiving and merciful God? |
God does not choose to leave anyone in torment for all eternity.
Matthew 23:37[ Jesus Laments over Jerusalem ] “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
God provided a way of salvation for all men, but also gives man free will.
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Do you think that those who resist the grace of God and choose to worship and serve the creature more than the Creator are deemed worthy by God to live with Him forever? Especially after God gave us His Beloved Son to be the Lamb of God who takes away our sin and cleanes us from all unrighteousness?
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Do you think that heaven should be populated with people that love sin more than they love God. That statement cannot even be true, because if we love God we will hate sin, we cannot love sin and God.
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
God is holy and we are commanded to be holy.
Leviticus 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
We need to get out of mans religious teachings and get into relationship with our beloved Savior.
We need to repent, turn away from our sins and turn to God with fear and humility and complete sincereity.
Use bible gateway to do a topical study on "fear
not" look at the context it which that phrase is always used. I think you will find it very interesting.
Peace and grace to you Lone. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Psalm 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
2 Chron 33:23
And humbled not himself before the LORD, as Manasseh his father had humbled himself; but Amon trespassed more and more.
2 Chron 34:27 Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before me; I have even heard thee also, saith the LORD.
Psalm 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:
Psalm 113:6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!
Daniel 5:22
And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this;
2 Chron 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. |
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