Understanding the Trinity

Van · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:22 am Post subject: Understanding the Trinity

Because the trinity is a paradox, no explanation will satisfy fully. But here goes a heart-felt effort:

Picture a glass sphere, solid glass, clear as a bell. Now picture that three round flat sections have been ground into the sphere making three equally spaced windows into the sphere.

Now picture the first window and look only at the surface, and you see a perfect circle. Lets call this circle the Father. Turn the sphere and look at the surface of the next window. Another perfect circle, but separate from the Father. Lets call this window the Word, or the Son or the pre-incarnate Jesus. Turn to the last window and again just look at the surface. Another perfect circle, the Holy Spirit.

Now the name of this sphere is Yahweh, God Almighty. The names of the windows are Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Look at the circle called the Son and look into the sphere and what do you see. You see through the window of God called the Son and see the windows called the Father and the Holy Spirit. Thus Christ is the perfect image of the Father, a visible manifestation of God the Father.

The Sphere has existed from before time, from all eternity. So Yahweh is eternal and so are all three windows.

Now Yahweh created the Universe and everything in it all alone. But, if I look through the window of the Son, what name might I call the creator? The Son, or if I look deeper I might say the Son and the Father worked together. And still it is true that one God created it all.

The trinity, one God in three persons, separate and equal in some respects can only be understood if we recognize that the persons that we see are God’s revelation to us. Sometimes we see a circle and sometimes we see two or all three. Sometimes the Bible reveals that the circle we have in view, the one we can see superficially communicates with another circle or both of the other circles. Whenever we have a circle in view, revealed in the physical universe, we are just seeing a revealed surface of God, a manifestation for our benefit. But the entity being partially revealed is the Sphere, the Eternal Spirit, Yahweh.

Jesus in the flesh was created within the womb of Mary, but incarnate within Jesus was the Son, eternal and creator of the Universe. He existed before the incarnation and humbled himself to become flesh, the Lamb of God. When we see passages that demonstrate that Jesus is the humble servant of the Father, what do we see? Do we see past the flesh and blood bodily form of Jesus. A man aware of the needs and desires of the flesh, a man tempted in everyway that we are tempted and yet did not sin. Can we see past the flesh and blood Jesus praying to his Father in heaven? Can we see past that revelation of the all too human Lamb of God, and see the incarnate Son? The one that shared glory with the Father before the foundation of the world was laid. And see that this does not conflict with the verse that says Yahweh does not share His glory with other gods.

The pure glass sphere represents that God is spirit – invisible yet powerful and active, able to reveal Himself by creating that which is visible from the starry sky to God in the flesh. The windows represent the manifestations of God’s revelation. One God in three persons, yet not three God’s nor one divine person. Behold, the trinity.

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

When people ask me to explain why I don't believe in the trinity, I show them Psalm 83:18: That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

I ask them simply: What does alone mean? Answer: By one's self. I reply: Very good.

Next I show them Luke 1:32: He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.

Then I ask: Do you remember who is alone the Most High? Unless they suffer from alzeimer's disease, they answer: Jehovah. Finally, I ask: And who is Jesus? They often need help here due to years of confusing dogma, but eventually we read the words: "Son of the Most High."

So Jehovah is the Most High alone, and Jesus is his son.

I guess that's why when Jesus was baptized, God spoke the words: This is my son.

I've been called an antichrist and non-Christian for not beleiving in God the Son, although this oft used expression is found only 0 times in Scriptures. I feel safe in my claim to not being "the" or even an antichrist because these deny Jesus is the son of God. While someone with dislexia might be excused, are trinitarians in danger of denying this fact?

Van · Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:

John 1:1/14 says that Jesus is God. Denial of the truth does not diminish the truth.

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

John 1: 1 - 3
In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.
It was he that was with God in the beginning. Everything came into existence through him, and apart from him nothing came to be.

An American Translation by Smith/Goodspeed.

Van · Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject:

Anyone can find a translation, or make one, that tickles their ears. The KJV, the NIV and the NASB say Jesus is God. Denial of the truth does not diminish the truth.

larryjf · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:49 am Post subject:

franksinatra,

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

First of all, please cite the translation from which you quote Jer 23:5-6 so I can confirm. The usage of "LORD" and "Jehovah" appear suspicious together.

larryjf · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject:

the word "LORD" is "Jehovah", they are translated from the same word - so i am missing your point.

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

Yes. The very thing you would accuse Witnesses of doing, namely poor and misleading translation, you just did. You selectively chose to translate the second LORD as Jehovah and leave the first as mistranslated. Psalm 110: 1 makes it clear that Jehovah and Jesus are not the same person. Jesus made this clear at Matt 22:43.

Do you own an NIV translation? Read the note on Deut 28:58 after reading the verse. Makes it sound like God wanted his awesome name to be removed by apostate Jews!

Now read Rev 14:1. I think any "saints" will intimately know this awesome name and what it stands for, as well as call on this only true God. (John 17:3; Rom 10:10)

larryjf · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject:

I forgot to translate the first "LORD" as "Jehovah".
I don't know why you are making such a big deal out of it. I just forgot to make it Jehovah.

You are really just dodging the point in order to argue semantics.

Van · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject:

This thread as an effort to explain the concept or doctrine of the trinity. FS, who does not believe the trinity doctrine is valid, posted that Jesus is not God, despite John 1:1/14. Now he seems to be trying to bury the thread in speculation about ulterior motives.

Lets return to Jeremiah 23:5-6. It says the LORD (Yahweh) will raise up a righteous branch which I think refers to the Messiah which is the Christ or Annointed One. And it says this is the name by which He will be called, LORD (Yahweh) our righteousness. The point being is that if Jesus is the Christ, then the name by which He will be called is Yahweh our righteousness. So what Larryjf said is correct - Jesus shares the name of Yahweh.

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

I didn't know people on this site are actual Bible translators. Why don't you bother restoring the divine name to all its rightful places as originally inspired (nearly 7,000)!

You would leave no room for the possibility that because Jesus is the means provided by Him by which anyone can be declared righteous before Jehovah God, this is why Jehovah makes this pronouncement?
You might research the meaning of several Bible names that incorporate the divine name in its meaning. Perhaps we can expand three to thirty three. By the way, I guess you'll dig up another passage and try to say the Holy Ghost is called Jehovah too?

Read Jesus own words about the one he directed attention to. (Mark 10:18) Jesus quoted Deut 5:9 to Satan where the divine name is found in the original manuscripts.

I worship the God Jesus worships.

nuff said.

Van · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject:

nuff said? I hope so. Christ shares Yahweh's name. The Father's acceptance of Christ's sacrifice, the just for the unjust, is the means by which believers are justified and declared righteous, for by grace through faith are we saved.

Yes, I agree, everytime my NASB prints LORD (all caps) I read it as Yahweh because it translates the telegramation YHWH.

Jesus is God and shares Yahweh's name and His glory.

larryjf · Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject:

larryjf · Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:39 pm Post subject:

franksinatra,

is there a reason you are ignoring the verses that i brought up speaking to Jesus creating all things and how YHWH alone created everything??