The Roman Catholic Church Inserted The Trinity , The Trinity

FFT · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:56 am Post subject:

Do Sola Scripturists (I think I made that up) believe in hell?

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

A trinity shortcut ... likely began in some school of religion when a teacher took a shortcut to instruct students how to perceive the office of bible deity.

To say, okay, Jehovah is God the Father, Jesus is God as the Son and the Holy Ghost is, is, is, well lets just call Him the Holy Ghost, or, rather, lets call the Holy Ghost the Spirit or, no, no, lets call the Father, Son and Holy Ghost ... the Holy Trinity.

Yeah, Yeah ... thats the ticket, the Trinity.

Now I don't ever have to instruct the business of the Father, the business of the Son or the activities of the Holy Ghost because the Trinity covers all three and they each are one, no wait, one plus one plus one is three and three can't be one, three is a trinity, no, I mean there are three, a trinity, thats it, a trinity of persons in one triunne deity.

No ... there is one God and His name is Jesus.

thunderstruck

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6817 Location: USA

thunder, you are making even less sense than usual.

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

On this topic, I think he make perfect sense Smile

Fake

t-shirtsnjeans · Big Goldfish Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 69

Could we as humans be considered 'trinity'?
I am a man, I am also a father, I am a son, and I am a (insert whatever hobby/trade here).
As a parent I have to shut off the 'daddy' part and go on 'father' mode as teacher, leader, disciplinarian, provider, etc, and in 'daddy' mode I can be friend, jokester, playpartner, etc. As a man I can be partner to having a wife which makes me a husband, and there are many 'hats' to the part of who I am but also that disconnects me from others.
We're skipping an important part of God, He can be all things to all people, and the Trinity is the simplest aspect of our understanding God on part. God the Father is our creator, and He has placed us here (which we could not do ourselves), and for us to relate to the 'unseen' He was here in the flesh as Jesus Christ. This one is part that a lot take for granted. He could have come as a monster, or as an animal, or any other form (which He did as angels, burning bush, dreams, visions, etc) and He was spit at, turned away from, disobeyed, mainly because someone needed 'proof' He existed. The prophecies were in place many many years before Jesus was born as God in the flesh. These were promises God made to man through prophecy.
During the whole time there were those that came to believe in Jesus much as satan did and still does, but to KNOW Jesus and God required an internal guidance system put in place that helps us to understand and communicate, also to discern truth from lies, good from bad, spirits of good and spirits of evil. The Holy Spirit is instilled in us upon accepting Christ as our savior. I think we can safely call the Holy Spirit our conscience that lets us know right from wrong, that convicts us upon wrong decisions, during and after times of sin, and summons us to ask for forgiveness and to seek God and His word.
When Jesus was baptized God said "This is my Son whom I love," and the Holy Spirit descended down on Him like a dove. So God spoke, Jesus did, the Holy Spirit acted.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6817 Location: USA

I think the biggest problem people have with the doctrine of the Trinity is that they do not, cannot, understand how it works exactly. It doesn't make total sense to us, in our limited understanding. However, last time I checked, God was beyond our understanding, transcendent above it and the world we know. To say the Trinity doctrine is false simply because we cannot grasp it in it's totality is limiting to God.

I do not fully understand how it can be so, but I realize that the scriptures clearly tell me that God is the Father, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, they are three distinct persons/personalities with form and function all their own, yet they are all the One True God. I also understand that there is a plurality to God as He Himself referred to Himself as 'us'. I cannot grasp the mechanics of how it works, nor do I have to in order to accept, by faith, that it is true.

FFT · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:25 am Post subject:

Having more than one personality within the same mind is known as "dissociative identity disorder."

It makes sense that the loving, peaceful Jesus personality would try to dissociate itself from the wrathful old testament war god, doesn't it? Not sure why the Holy Spirit seperated itself out, though.

lowers · Big Goldfish Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 70 Location: SC

Hebrew Name___(pronunciation)___Translation____________ Definition_________________1st Ref.
Elohim .... el-lo-heem’ ........God......ref.s to God’s power & might .... Gen. 1:1

Elohim = general name of God concerned with the creation & preservation of the world, that is, His works.

Heb. = in our bibles = definition
Elohim=God=the transcendent Deity

Elohim relates to the Person of God—the POWER & glory of His Being.

There is BLESSing & COMFORT in this great name of God ...
the expression of Himself as a God of righteousness, holiness, love & redemption

Elohim=Godhead, Trinity, a plurality in unity.

Although PLURAL in Form Elohim is constantly accompanied by verbs & adjectives in the SINGULAR.

Elohim is used ATLEAST in Gen. 1:1--2:3 (35x) ... &... Gen. 6:22, 28:13 ; Exod. 3:14-15 (2x ); Lev. ch.s1-7 ; Deu. 32:39 ; 2Ki. 19:4 ; 2Chr. 14:11 ; Ps. ch.s:42-84, 86:10 ; book of Eccl. ; Isa. 43:10-11 ; book of Dan. ; book of Jonah ; John ch. 10 (4x)

FFT · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:59 am Post subject:

Elohim is also the collective name for the pantheon of El, the pre-Abrahamic gods of the Hebrews/Canaanites. There is thought that Elohim came to mean a singular god as the Hebrews interpreted their scripture with post-Abrahamic views.

jdwtx2005 · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 28

1. Each being within the Godhead is a person. The FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT are three distinct co-eternal persons.

2. Each person of the Trinity possesses the same natural and moral “attributes” of God.
3. Each person of the Trinity is involved in “works” that only God can do:
4. Each person of the Trinity receives the “worship” that only God is due:

Natural and moral “attributes” of God:
These “attributes” are those virtues or qualities which manifest His nature and constitute His character:
God’s natural attributes (Psalm 139)
* His omniscience (All-knowing)
Father: Psalm 139:1-6,17,18,23
Son: Jn 2:24,25
Spirit: Isa 11:2 & I Cor 2:10,11
* His omnipresence (Ever-present)
Father: Psalm 139:7-12
Son: Mt 28:20
Spirit: Psa 139:7 & Jn 14:16,17
* His omnipotence (All-powerful)
Father: Psalm 139:13-16
Son: Mt 28:18
Spirit: Lk 1:35
* His eternal immutability (Never-changing)
Father : Psalm 139:24
Son: Heb 13:8
Spirit Heb 9:14

God’s moral attributes (Psalm 89)
* His mercy
Father: Psalm 89:1
Son: Titus 1:4
Spirit: Jn 14:16
* His faithfulness
Father: Psalm 89:1
Son: Rev 19:11
Spirit: Jn 15:26
* His truth
Father: Psalm 89:14
Son: Jn 14:6
Spirit Jn 15:26
* His righteousness
Father: Psalm 89:16
Son: Heb 1:8,9
Spirit: Rom 14:17
* His love
Father: Psalm 89:33
Son: II Cor 5:14
Spirit: Gal 5:22
* His kindness
Father: Psalm 89:33
Son: Jn 14:6-11
Spirit: Gal 5:22
* His holiness
Father: Psalm 89:35
Son: Mk 1:24
Spirit Mt 1:18

more to come...

jdwtx2005 · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 28

3. Each person of the Trinity is involved in “works” that only God can do:
God’s work
* The creation of the world
Father: Psalm 102:25 & Rev 4:11
Son: Jn 1:3 & Heb 1:2,10
Spirit: Gen 1:2 & Job 26:13
* The creation of man
Father: Rev 4:1 &
Son: Colo 1:16,17
Spirit: Job 33:4
* The death of CHRIST
Father: Isa 53:10
Son: Jn 10:18
Spirit: Heb 9:24
* The resurrection of CHRIST
Father: Acts 2:32
Son: Jn 2:19
Spirit: I Pet 3:18
* The inspiration of the Bible
Father: Heb 1:1
Son: I Pet 1:10,11
Spirit: II Pet 1:21
* The indwelling of the believer
Father: Eph 4:6
Son: Colo 1:7
Spirit: I Cor 6:19
* The security of the believer
Father: Jn 10:29
Son: Phil 1:6
Spirit: Eph 1:13,14

4. Each person of the Trinity receives the “worship” that only God is due:
*FATHER (See - Jn 4:21,23,24 & Rev 4:10 & 5:14 & 7:11 & 11:16 & 19:4)
*SON (See - Mt 2:2,8,11 & 8:2 & 9:18 & 14:33 & 15:25 & 18:26 & 20:20 & 28:9,17 & Mk 5:6 & 15:19 & Lk 24:52 & Jn 9:38 & Heb 1:6)
*HOLY SPIRIT (See - I Cor 3:16 & Ezekiel 3:24-27 & Acts 5:1-4)

jdwtx2005 · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 28

If the father is Love there must be an object of love. THerefore the son must have eternally existed.

The holy spirit is a manifestation of the Perfect Love between the Son and the Father. Perfect Love has power that we cannot comprehend. The power to manifest another personality.

The Son can be less than the father but still equal.

Infinity minus 5 (or any number) is still infinity.

jdwtx2005 · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 28

In Deuteronomy 6:4, the word (one) comes from the Hebrew word ’echad and can mean, “compound unity.” Though some (such as, Judaism, Islam, Jehovah Witness, and United Pentecostal) have tried to deny the Trinity because of their interpretation of the word one, the “unity” of JEHOVAH as opposed to the belief in many gods is what is being stressed here. This verse could have easily been translated, “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.” Note how this same word ’echad is used in Genesis 2:24,

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”

Whenever couples marry, they don’t become one in “number.” They become one in “unity.” This same word ’echad is again used in Genesis 11:6,

“And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.”

The people spoken of here in Genesis 11:6 did not become one in “number.” They became one in “unity.” Genesis 11:6 could easily read this way,

“And the LORD said, Behold, the people are unified (i.e., are one), and they have all a unified (i.e., one) language;”

According to the Bible, the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT are three distinct co-eternal persons, called the Godhead. They are all equally God and each ONE is worthy of our worship! Not only was the teaching of the Triune Godhead common in Hebrew thought, but our early Church fathers upheld this biblical doctrine as well. Tertullian (late second century) in a refutation of Praxeas wrote,

“If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected to simple unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, ‘Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness’; whereas He ought to have said, ‘Let me make man in my own image and after my own likeness…’”

jdwtx2005 · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 28

So there are my reasons for belief in the Trinity. some scriptural , some logical.

Please feel free to pick apart my reasons. I am sure there may be some of you that will refute that some of my refences do not refer to the Holy Spirit or the Son but only the Father. But I ask you to consider, why could it not be. Assume Nothing.....

jdwtx2005 · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 28

Oh I forgot the greatest verse in the Old Testament proving the Trinity Isaiah 48:16,

“Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the LORD GOD, and his SPIRIT, hath sent ME”

Jesus speaks here:

Matthew 10:39-40
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for MY sake shall find it.
40 He that receiveth you receiveth ME, and he that receiveth ME receiveth him that SENT ME.