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Solving For Q


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Da Blonde Bombshell
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Joined: 31 Jan 2003

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: Solving For Q Reply with quote

From 365gay.com:


Solving For Q
by Cam Lindquist


"You are short three credit hours in Mathematics." I sat looking at Jenna Dunn, my advisor, with a blank look.

"How is that possible? I took Probability and Statistics at Tech. It should have transferred."

"The credit for Probability and Statistics did transfer, but at Tech, Psychology is an Arts Major. Here it is a Science Course of Study. Therefore you need that statistics class in addition to three credit hours of mathematics. Now, we have MAT110 coming up next term, Mathematics for the Liberal Arts Student. Would you like me to sign you up?"

I looked at her again with a blank stare. "Are you serious? MAT110?" I took Calculus and Trigonometry in High School. The Calculus class was an AP class, but by the time I got to the end of my senior year I was less interested in taking AP exams for college credit and more interested in going to the beach and drinking Rum Runners! I knew that would come back to haunt me one day.

"Yes, I am very serious. Now, you still have another year before you graduate. However I would like to point out we don't have many Mathematics classes here because we are a satellite school, not the main campus. And you don't care for online classes." This is true; I perform better in a classroom because I am a procrastinator. You can ask my editor. I am almost never on time with my assignments. "So I would strongly encourage you to get this out of the way now."

And that is how I ended up in MAT110. The first day was promising. Dr. Altman spent half the class teaching philosophy instead of math. He talked about how education opened up people's minds to new ideas. Dr. Altman emphasized that some things should be left to interpretation such as religion and politics. He talked about how diverse his spectrum of friends is and how he had spent much of his life proving to people, because of his strong southern accent and slow-paced life, that he wasn't just another Rebel Country Boy.

And I totally understood where he was coming from. Dr. Altman was a very slow-to-speak man with a long, deep southern drawl. Obviously from a very down-to-earth family, I could tell that education had made him see the world was much bigger than the town of 5000 people he grew up in.

And I was even more encouraged in the second class when we discussed religion. He and his wife drive into the city every Sunday to attend a Methodist Church where the minister is a woman. Surely a man who is educated and openly recognizes the close-mindedness of his upbringing, and attends weekly services run by a female pastor is a man with whom I can relate. Not that I thought of him as gay, but I thought he was liberal-minded. Boy, was I ever wrong!

The third class convened and the guy who sits next to me was missing. He is in the Air Force and had to fly out. Dr. Altman went on and on about our "boys in uniform" and how he was going to take care of him and his grades because his job was what made all of our jobs possible. I had no problem with that. I agreed with that.

It was his next comment that threw me out of my seat so hard I almost hit the back wall of the classroom. He said, "I learned something when I was in college. I learned that the Professor can do anything he wants. You can have an A in this class, and I can fail you. You can have an F in this class, and I can pass you. It is one of the few things that don't change. It was that way when I was in school, and it is still that way." Call me suspicious, but I was the only one with an A in the class. I wasn't certain what his point was, but he was looking right at me when he said it.

The next few classes proved equally as strange, small comments that inferred things but never directly came right out and said anything. Such as:

Joke: How is California like my breakfast cereal? It is the land of flakes, nuts and fruit.
Those folks up in Bean Town have some strange ideas on what marriage is, but we won't get into that today.
Some people are responsible and have families to support, and then others choose a lifestyle that leaves them free to party past the age you should.
Kids need a mom and a dad. That is what is wrong with all these bad apples going in and shooting up schools.
Some people think they need to flaunt their choices in people's face, but you don't see the rest of us doing that. I don't go around telling nobody about my sex life with my wife. So I don't need to know about yours.
My paranoia was in high gear, let me tell you! I really didn't know how to address it. Then my Aunt BeBe passed away. She was my great aunt and we weren't that close. But my sister was really upset and I felt like I should go be with my family that first evening. So I called Dr. Altman. He gave me permission to miss class but asked me I thought my family really wanted me there with them. This infuriated me. Some of my family has issues with me being gay, but thankfully none of them have disowned me. I decided action was necessary.

Since Dr. Altman always arrived right on time for class, I decided to show up early for our next session. My good friend Peggyann had sent me an e-mail that I felt was perfect. Though sadly I am not sure the name of the brilliant author who wrote this, I had Kinko's print up the e-message, in purple, on two large poster boards. I left the message for all to read in the front of the class, thumb-tacked over the whiteboard.

Solving For Q

Sometimes in life, as well as Mathematics, an answer seems to make sense until it is read in full context. Such as:

Homosexuality is not natural: much like eyeglasses, contact lenses, and pacemakers.
Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people shouldn't legally get married because their unions will not yield offspring.
Obviously homosexual parents will only be able to raise homosexual children because heterosexual parents only raise heterosexual children.
Heterosexual marriage will become less meaningful if homosexual marriage becomes legal because more than half of all heterosexual marriages currently end in divorce.
Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and has not changed, so why change things now? For instance women are still considered property, blacks cannot marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
Homosexual marriage should be decided by Congress, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures have historically protected the rights of the minorities through segregation and ignoring women's suffrage.
Homosexual marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That is why we have only one religion in America.
Homosexual marriage will encourage people to be homosexual in the same way that hanging around tall people will encourage one to be tall or hanging around Asian people will encourage one to be Asian.
Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior such as people wanting to marry animals because animals have equal rights to humans and are capable of signing legal contracts.
Children can never succeed without male and female role models in the home. That is why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
Same-sex marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time and our society will not survive adapting to new social norms. This has been historically proven when cars, longer life spans, and space travel were introduced.
Civil unions providing most of the same benefits as marriage under a different name is better because a "separate but equal" institution has been proven constitutional such as the segregation of African-Americans in the education system.
Homosexuals are not entitled to the rights a marriage gives them such as joint tax returns, automatic next of kin, and the ability to visit an ill spouse in the hospital like their heterosexual counterparts because they don't pay the same taxes heterosexuals pay and therefore are not equal under the law.
Homosexual marriage would perpetuate the promiscuous lifestyle "*Man's Man* people" lead because anytime a commitment is introduced into a relationship it pushes the two parties toward infidelity as we have seen with heterosexual marriages.
And finally, Same-Sex Marriage should not be made legal because Tomas Jefferson, when he wrote the Declaration of Independence, did not intend it to include: Homosexuals, African Americans, Asians, Native-Americans, Muslims, Jews, or Women. These groups were internationally excluded when he wrote:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. Among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

Dr. Altman came in and read the poster boards. Then he turned around and looked at the class. Everyone sat quietly with their hands folded in anticipation of what he would say. He looked directly at me, started to say something, but decided not to speak. Dr. Altman walked up and removed the boards, setting them so the blank backs faced the class and the writing faced the wall. Then he began to talk about chapter 7, solving for X.

Dr. Altman did not speak of any philosophical, political, or social issues after that day. He stuck to mathematics and solving for X. I can conclude only that he felt we had covered solving for Q adequately.
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Van
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The homosexual agenda is advanced by protraying opponents as bigots, the politics of personal destruction. It is advanced by use of distortions and lies.

I have only known one openly lesbian lady. She was a child predator. She would pretend to be a boy and "date" teenage girls. 80% of the molestations reported in the Catholic church were homosexual in nature, male Priests messing with boys 11, 12, 13 and 14 years old. Homosexual activity such as predation is wrong.
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RevJP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a direct correlation between a man's penis size and his ability to play basketball - the bigger the penis, the better his ability to play.

We all know the above correlation is true, but the correlation does not reflect the real truth. The correlation proves true only because young boys who have not yet matured have less ability to play basketball. As they grow up, and practice, get taller, more athletic, etc. their ability to play improves (except for me - I still cannot do a decent lay-up). Interestingly though, is the fact that as these young boys grow up and improve in their ability to play ball, their genitalia also grows. Hence the direct correlation, but not the truth of the matter.

Priests and homosexual molestations are correlated to a high degree, as Van pointed out, but that is not the real truth - and all who care to look past the inflammatory rhetoric should realize this.

Truth to be told, many of the molestations came not from homosexual priests, but pedophiles, with no orientation other than their own drive to prey on children - boys or girls. Their positions gave them easy access to boys, subsequently the higher percentages of boys being preyed upon.

Homosexuality does not equate to predation, no more than belief in God and the bible equates to Klu Kluxian mindsets. The insinuation is enraging in its bigoted and unintelligent design.


Last edited by RevJP on Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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homer
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The homosexual agenda is advanced by protraying opponents as bigots, the politics of personal destruction. It is advanced by use of distortions and lies.

I have only known one openly lesbian lady. She was a child predator. She would pretend to be a boy and "date" teenage girls. 80% of the molestations reported in the Catholic church were homosexual in nature, male Priests messing with boys 11, 12, 13 and 14 years old. Homosexual activity such as predation is wrong.


Van, it's interesting that your first paragraph decries the tactics of "the homosexual agenda" for using distortion and lies. Yet you quickly resort to the same tactics to push your agenda. Perhaps you did not mean to imply this, but your comment that "Homosexual activity such as predation is wrong" seems to suggest that predation is an activity exclusive to homosexuals. A great number of predators, outside of the catholic church, are heterosexual.

I, personally, know many, many homosexuals, most of whom are in long term, committed relationships. It's unfortunate that the one homosexual you've known was such a bad example, but I'm sure you'd agree that you can't judge the worth of all by the actions of one. Right?
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Van
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer, if you read the post about solving for Q, you undoubtedly came across the rant which was one distortion or lie after another yet you did not mention this in your post. Shall I assume you accept as truth the following:
Quote:
Homosexual marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That is why we have only one religion in America.
Homosexual marriage will encourage people to be homosexual in the same way that hanging around tall people will encourage one to be tall or hanging around Asian people will encourage one to be Asian.
Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior such as people wanting to marry animals because animals have equal rights to humans and are capable of signing legal contracts.
Children can never succeed without male and female role models in the home. That is why single parents are forbidden to raise children.


Anyway, I say those are distortions and lies.

Ok, homer, now tell me where exactly I lied. Did I say all predation is homosexual? Nope Did I deny that true pedophiles exist, including same sex pedophiles that prey on children? Nope So what we have is you, homer, inferring a falsehood and attributing it to me. That dear friend is what I call the politics of personal destruction.
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homer
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

van,

One thing that I find interesting is that RevJP and I can make a similar point, but you somehow find that mine is the more inflammatory and accusatory.

Quote:
RevJP said: Truth to be told, many of the molestations came not from homosexual priests, but pedophiles, with no orientation other than their own drive to prey on children - boys or girls. Their positions gave them easy access to boys, subsequently the higher percentages of boys being preyed upon.

Homosexuality does not equate to predation, no more than belief in God and the bible equates to Klu Kluxian mindsets. The insinuation is enraging in its bigoted and unintelligent design.


Quote:
I said: Perhaps you did not mean to imply this, but your comment that "Homosexual activity such as predation is wrong" seems to suggest that predation is an activity exclusive to homosexuals. A great number of predators, outside of the catholic church, are heterosexual.


If anything, I'd say my comment was less accusatory, yet your acrimony is directed at me. I gave you the benefit of the doubt with my comment saying that "perhaps you did not mean to imply this, but your comment that.....seems to suggest...etc."

I am not saying you lied. I'm saying that the way in which your comment was phrased seemed to suggest that predation was a homosexual behavior. And if that was the true nature of the suggestion, then I would say that, yes, it is a distortion and a lie. However, I did not want to make a suggestion like this without fully understanding your point.
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RevJP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer, Van and I have had our roes over this and other issues plenty of times, and I expect it to happen again - but please don't encourage him to come after me! Laughing

I have found that Van and I agree on much, but where we begin to digress is when discussing issues which by their nature are defended or attacked with passion, and then more often than not, I am moved to comment regarding his rhetoric, which I do not always agree with.

My thinking is that in this instance, Van may indeed feel that he has had this tussle with me already and wishes not to pummel the decomposing horse... I could be wrong, but when would that be news?
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Van
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:
Van, it's interesting that your first paragraph decries the tactics of "the homosexual agenda" for using distortion and lies. Yet you quickly resort to the same tactics to push your agenda.


The way I read this, and correct me if I am wrong, you are saying that I am using the tactics of distortions and lies.

So if you had given me the benefit of the doubt, why did you say I used distortions and lies?

Homer it looks to me like you were looking for something to thrash me with and this is the best you could come up with. Just between you and me, pretty thin.

Now to your next point, why did I not attack RevJp, because RevJp also disagreed with me. I did not address RevJp because I did not notice the false claim that I had insinuated that homosexuality equates to predation.
But now that you bring it up, I did not insinuate anything of the sort, I indicated that "Homosexual activity such as predation is wrong." How about this "predation, whether done by same sex pedophiles or those who engage in homosexual activity or those that engage in heterosexual activity is wrong. What I am talking about is grooming a child or teenager and getting them to engage in sexual activity by someone 5 or more years older. So a 23 year old or older Priest getting it on with a teenage boy under 18 is predation. And if the child is in or past puberty, it is technically incorrect to say the Priest is engaging in pedophile activity - he is engaging in homosexual activity, or so it seems to me.
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homer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

van,

As I stated in my previous post, I made sure to say that the way your comment was phrased seemed to suggest that predation was a homosexual behavior. I even said that perhaps you did not mean for it to come across in that manner. If it didn't come across that way, I don't think RevJP would have responded in the way he did, either (revjp, I apologize that I keep bringing you into this and I don't mean to speak for you). But since I suspected that the way in which your comment was perceived may not be the way you intended, I said "perhaps you did not mean to imply this..."

That's how I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. It seems like you are only reading the first sentence of my first post and nothing else I wrote, because it seems like I have to keep saying the same things over again.


Quote:
Homer it looks to me like you were looking for something to thrash me with and this is the best you could come up with. Just between you and me, pretty thin.


Van, I know you've had some pretty heated debates with other atheists on the board in the past, so you've probably got your defenses up whenever one of us makes a post in response to you. But I have absolutely nothing against you, and have no reason to want to "thrash" you. I think I've shown in all of my previous posts that I'm not here to pick a fight like some of the others are. I think my posts have all been pretty innocuous. In fact, if you noticed, my harshest words I've ever stated on this board were directed toward brothers keeper in his "what do you think about this 2" thread (http://bible-discussion.com/message-board-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1269&start=0) because I don't appreciate the way in which he addresses people.

Finally, thanks for clarifying your initial statement. I had a feeling that you didn't mean it the way it initially came out. Wink
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Van
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer, I take it you did not mean to suggest that I used distortions and lies on purpose because later you suggest my use of distortion and lies was unintentional. As Ben Franklin would say, "Faint Praise". For the record, I did not use distortions or lies in my post, and any suggestion that I did is a lie and a distortion. I cannot prevent you, by inference, from distorting what I say and then claiming your distortion was my tactic, or my insinuation, but I can point out that your use of such methods is practicing the politics of personal destruction. And as I have posted before, those advancing and advocating homosexual activity do so using sophistry and the politics of personal destruction.

I enjoy outdoor activities such as baseball, but that does not suggest that others do not enjoy baseball indoors, in front of a TV set watching a world series game played indoors. Something can be a subset of more than one set. It is the difference from saying "All predation is homosexual" and saying "Homosexual activity includes many vile practices such as predation as does pedophile activity."

The thousands of predations documented in the Catholic Church report are being covered as if they were pedophile predations, when the probability is that the majority of them were predations by men who engage in homosexual activity with teenage boys.
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Smilin' Jacks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Solving For Q Reply with quote

Da Blonde Bombshell wrote:
Solving For Q by Cam Lindquist


Priceless, absolutely priceless!

Laughing
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Van
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, there is no value in distortions and lies, or fictional strawman arguments where opponents are painted as bigots.
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RevJP
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I cannot prevent you, by inference, from distorting what I say and then claiming your distortion was my tactic, or my insinuation,

Van, you can and you know so. The very way you word what you say is designed to direct another's inference from what you write. You use heavy handed rhetoric masterfully, then sit back and claim that those who understand what you write to say a certain thing misunderstand you or post falsehoods about what you write. One must take more responsiblity for how others percieve their writings, particularly when what they write is designed to give certain impressions. The claim of innocense by proxy is a weak claim.

Quote:
those advancing and advocating homosexual activity do so using sophistry and the politics of personal destruction

Four fingers pointing back at you...

Quote:
It is the difference from saying "All predation is homosexual" and saying "Homosexual activity includes many vile practices such as predation as does pedophile activity."

While technically this may be the truth, we all understand that you did not post it for the clarity of it's truth but to plant the seed of the ideas you dare not say for fear of being rebuked as untrue. Homosexual activity does include vile practices as well does hetrosexual activity. You do not point that out though do you? You do not point out that hetrosexuals are responsible for more predation than homosexuals have ever been. Instances of hetrosexual predation - molestation, rape, voyuerism, pedophilia, etc. out number instances of the same acts by homosexuals by thousands to one. This truth however was strangely absent from your technically true comments. You would claim that the difference proves the truth of but you dump the truth wrapped in so much vilely misleading rhetoric it astounds.

Quote:
The thousands of predations documented in the Catholic Church report are being covered as if they were pedophile predations, when the probability is that the majority of them were predations by men who engage in homosexual activity with teenage boys.

This is mere speculation and sophistry. You know full well that we may never be able to prove the fact of the matters, and you slyly avoid saying that it is true by using 'probably'.
Sophistry, plain and simple Van. You are using the same tactics rhetorically that you charge others with.
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Da Blonde Bombshell
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Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Van wrote:
I agree, there is no value in distortions and lies, or fictional strawman arguments where opponents are painted as bigots.


In these situations where people are called bigots toward LGBTs I wouldn't say it's a situation where someone's "painted" as one unless it's they temselves doing the painting. Usually when it's said a person is a bigot in these instances the person has indicated they do not believe or feel an LGBT person has the same dignity and worth that they do and that their relationships are not as sacred or holy as the speaker's. That is an expression of bigotry. To say so is not to namecall so much as it is to to describe what is being done. It is certainly likely the term may have been unfairly applied at times; but it is obvious the spokespeople of the religious right organizations are bigots and most of their supporters are for supporting them. Stark naked bigotry is dripping from their fundraising letters-to respond to these is quite simply to be a bigot.
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Da Blonde Bombshell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RevJP wrote:
Quote:
I cannot prevent you, by inference, from distorting what I say and then claiming your distortion was my tactic, or my insinuation,

Van, you can and you know so. The very way you word what you say is designed to direct another's inference from what you write. You use heavy handed rhetoric masterfully, then sit back and claim that those who understand what you write to say a certain thing misunderstand you or post falsehoods about what you write. One must take more responsiblity for how others percieve their writings, particularly when what they write is designed to give certain impressions. The claim of innocense by proxy is a weak claim.

Quote:
those advancing and advocating homosexual activity do so using sophistry and the politics of personal destruction

Four fingers pointing back at you...

Quote:
It is the difference from saying "All predation is homosexual" and saying "Homosexual activity includes many vile practices such as predation as does pedophile activity."

While technically this may be the truth, we all understand that you did not post it for the clarity of it's truth but to plant the seed of the ideas you dare not say for fear of being rebuked as untrue. Homosexual activity does include vile practices as well does hetrosexual activity. You do not point that out though do you? You do not point out that hetrosexuals are responsible for more predation than homosexuals have ever been. Instances of hetrosexual predation - molestation, rape, voyuerism, pedophilia, etc. out number instances of the same acts by homosexuals by thousands to one. This truth however was strangely absent from your technically true comments. You would claim that the difference proves the truth of but you dump the truth wrapped in so much vilely misleading rhetoric it astounds.

Quote:
The thousands of predations documented in the Catholic Church report are being covered as if they were pedophile predations, when the probability is that the majority of them were predations by men who engage in homosexual activity with teenage boys.

This is mere speculation and sophistry. You know full well that we may never be able to prove the fact of the matters, and you slyly avoid saying that it is true by using 'probably'.
Sophistry, plain and simple Van. You are using the same tactics rhetorically that you charge others with.


Thank you for a reasonable response, Rev JP. Obviously there are some vile individuals who are homosexuals. Certain serial killers come to mind, like the predator Andrew Cunanan who killed the designer Giovanni Versace. While some spoke dismissively of Versace (who was a gay man)as a mindless pouf few impugned his character and it was known he funded charities to benefit AIDS patients among other things.

Many people argue, for instance, that the Boy Scouts prohibit gay scout leaders to protect boys from molestation, but the official Boy Scout line on this is that's not so, it's instead an issue of values. Of course the "no open gays" policy does zero to protect the youth from predators who ingratiate themselves to the leadership and don't identify as gay-in fact many would be insulted if called that. If that was actually the purpose of not having gay leadership it would make much more sense to prohibit heterosexual men from coaching girls sports for that reason since so many more of them are so victimized.

The Catholic sex abuse scandals is a complex matter. The priests who abused kids were wrong, but the higher-ups who covered it up made things worse. Some of the offenders were predators who targeted multiple kids, mostly boys. Some were not much different from heterosexual fathers under stress, often under influence of alcohol or drugs, who abuse girls on a few occasions, people acting amorally and foolishly, often immediately regretting it. Some conservative Catholics have tried to say the scandal is due to "gays in the priesthood" but that's like saying it was Hillary Clinton's fault Bill had an affair with Monica Lewinsky. Ultimately every person is 100% responsible for their own actions, and that's certainly true of all in the Catholic abuse scandal-for both those who abused kids and those who covered it up.
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