Big Bang??

larryjf · Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:27 am Post subject: Big Bang??

Try to think of any explosion that has produced order. Does a terrorist bomb create harmony? Big bangs cause chaos. How could a Big Bang produce a rose, apple trees, fish, sunsets, the seasons, hummingbirds, polar bears—thousands of birds and animals, each with its own eyes, nose, and mouth? A child can see that there is "grand design" in creation.

Eddy Tiner · Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:46 pm Post subject:

The Big Bang and grand design are not mutually exclusive.

Ron · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject:

Eddy Tiner · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:17 pm Post subject:

Big Bang theory presupposes the existence of all matter, and makes no comment concerning its origins. It is not in conflict with an acceptance of God as the universe's creator.

The Big Bang refers not to the creation of matter, but to a time when its form was vastly different from that which we now observe. Prior to the existence of the physical universe as we know it, all matter (according to this theory) existed in an infinitesimally small single point.

The matter that was to form you, me, the earth, the star Vega, the Andromeda Galaxy, and everything else was in there. As I ponder how it might have looked to an observer, the following description sounds quite appropriate: "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, 'Let there be light'; and there was light."

A better description of the Big Bang has never been written.

Eddy Tiner · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject:

brotherskeeper · Ferret Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 108

Eddy Tiner is the voice of reson in this forum.

However I don't agree that a god created matter. Eddy does make crazy people like Ron and Larryjf look pretty ridiculous

Larryjf is simple minded "does a terrorist bomb create harmony?"

WHat a nutcase. He doesn't understand anything.

Larry I'll buy you a copy of my sixth grade science book.
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Nobby · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject: Note to All!

Hey, I will ask you to please cut the the cute little names. OK!
A good policy is if you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all! Mad

Check the board rules!
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Ron · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:09 am Post subject:

brotherskeeper · Ferret Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 108

Ron Go back to school

Yes, Eddy is the voice of reason
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell

brotherskeeper · Ferret Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 108

Sorry for breaking the rules nobby i will try not to do it again
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell

Ron · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject:

larryjf · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

ben frank · Not So Newbie Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 8

Who is this brothers keeper who seems to have opinions of everyone because of their beliefs, but has no evidence to back up his claim

Eddy Tiner · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:12 am Post subject:

joman · Tiger Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 816

Ed>“Since God is infinite, does it not make sense that we are likely to find him in multiple places on the "traditional" theological spectrum?”

No. Your not making any sense. Since I’m supposed to assume your more logical than this I’ll assume also that your smoozing. Must I analyze your statement for you?

Ed>“Did carbon and hydrogen make all other elements??”

(A). Yes?………err…... (B) Well, hydrogen did, anyway?….(c) both? Answer is no.

Ed>“Following the big bang, scattered particles began to gather together under the influence of their gravity.”

The inertia of the kinetic energy of the atomic particles is far greater than any gravitational attraction they possess. Even in todays ‘real’ world you can offer no example of any atomic particles coming together due to the gravity they share. Of course you could freeze hydrogen at absolute zero and push together the atoms with some atom musher. Gravity is the weakest force in the universe.

Ed>“Eventually, some of these objects ignited, becoming stars.”

I’m sorry but that only happened long ago and far far away behind clouds so no one can observe the magic of it all. Bummer too, because that leaves a scientist with only the certainty of having no evidence of star making. But of course you could take Hubble pictures and point to them and say see…..right there>>>>behind that cloud…..huh …..well it was there billions of years ago.

Ed>“In those stars, hydrogen was fused into helium .”

By gravity? And, no explosion? The enviroment of the big blob (before it blew up) wasn’t able to fuse? Or was to hot to fuse? Or defuse atoms? If the hydrogen can’t become helium in the big blob why does it in the little blobs (prestars)? Maybe……the big blob was to hot and that made atoms overcome their binding energy and produce sub-atomic particle soup. But, that would have caused explosions before the blob got very big. O wait!…it was already there by the creative act of God or …it just was….. and then the soup exploded because???......it was hot enough to overcome infinite weight and density proving it wasn’t actually infinte…..and explode…or …er…maybe it expanded so fast due to???.....heat ,that it…
Threw everything away from it’s center till they cooled off enough to get back together because the gravity back then was so great…and they formed litlle blobs (prestars) at the right temperatures and weight and density to mush unwilling particles that, no longer had anywhere else to go, together, into beautiful structures of great diversity ….and then they left the stars (vulcan creaters) and went out and formed much cooler blobs(preplanets) that were able to form into chemical molecules and then…they gathered into large blobs (planets) of not very diverse atoms and molecules by some unknown discrimination process (lets call it the law of "pre-evolution planet preperation" :PEPP) in outer space…..that produced only one known diverse planet (planet) that has all the chemicals and atoms found anywhere else and that was perchance fortunate (well not luck since that's what the law of PEPP does; it uses natural selection of life needed materials and routes them only to the earth, which is the proof it is a law since; here we are) because..... the law of evolution which was waiting for the right opprotunity to prove it was here..... began to allow great complexity to grow all things well...(even the planet itself; I think) until .....it stopped..... or began operating so slowly that we haven’t seen it do it yet. But, evidence is everywhere! Check out the evidence in the encylopedia. It's a might thin but .

Ed>“the stellar furnace was in action”

The vulcan creation process! All because of gravity? What causes gravity?

Ed>“In larger stars, heavier elements were able to be formed, lithium being a good example and carbon coming along in there as well.”

I get it! The bigger the vulcan creation engines the bigger the creation! Except when it’s too big then it only bangs and starts over. Just think about it. Everything you need right there inside the sun. And it’s arriving everyday. Maybe that’s where all the excess argon is coming from.

Ed>“As larger and larger (and rarer and rarer) stars formed, even heavier elements were able to be produced, and each new nuclear reaction provided an ever greater production of energy.”

Is there no end to this magic act? All you need is "love"? Not hardly…all you need is "energy" that just keeps getting better. And, the gold that got here from the sun or even further away just drifted in from outerspace.

Ed>“Until iron. To fuse elements into other elements heavier than iron consumes energy.”

It’s a shame to. Cause up to now we weren’t consuming any energy, just rearranging it. You just wait until the first fusion reactor proves how efficient it is. Entropy? No way...doesn't apply because there's always more coming from light years away. Yea, and that's why there a predominantly iron meteorites...because the gold and lead and everything is so much more rare. Wonder what makes protons and neutrons stick together after you release them from the vulcan creater?

Ed>“This would tend to explain why the heavier the element, the more scarce we can expect it to be. And that is exactly what we tend to observe.”

Why resort to logic now. O and if the star crushed protons and neutrons into the atomic nucleus structures they are today, why weren't the electrons shoved inside the nucleus? They would like it there since they not only have gravity to help but the mutual attractive force of electricity between protons and electrons. We know the repelling force of the protons at the distances that exist inside the nucleus is far greater. Hmmmm. Binding energy....how that get in there? Actually you tend to observe what you want to tend towards.

Concerning the difference between rocks and dust Ed said, “Genesis says we were formed from the dust of the ground. Theologically, what's the diffference”

I was concerned about Ed’s ability to reason till I realized that he was pondering the “theological difference between rocks and dust.” I was gonna remind him that dust has much more to work with especially if you’re a potter. (dust mixes well with water)

Ed>“There's no contradiction here, Ron. God created everything. It just turns out that the way he did it was different from what we originally thought.”

The “we” here is every one who decided to believe the ever changing evolution fantasy iinstead of the Bible. Anyway the writer of Genesis would be suprised to know of God's quick use of the vulcan creater.

Ed>“This is not new territory for believers. Second century Christians wrestled with, and ultimately came to grips with, the fact that Christ was not returning when he apparently had said he would -- before the last of his own generation had die.”

When they realized “generation” meant the “generation of Jesus Christ” and not the generation of people who lived in the time of Jesus earthly ministry who are the “generation of Adam”. What they wrestled with was unbelief. and without faith people fall into the category of those of whom Jesus asks, "Why cannot you understand my speech?" Bet you can't answer that.

Ed>“ Genesis seems to be telling us that earth is the center of the universe, since everything's purpose is to shine light on the earth, or to regulate time on the earth. Eventually, we came to see how wrong we were.”

This is the same unbelieving “we” as defined earlier. You know the ones that don’t realize that the earth is the "center of attention" by all the host of heaven as opposed to the physical location of the earth in the universe. If the angels rejoice at every one who is saved I’m sure they are tempted to laugh at the story of evolution according to satan who was one of the observers of the creation story as found in Genesis. The regulation of time ties man's existence to the number six. And, informs everyone that time is running out.

Ed>“God is revealing Himself to us. Every day, science discovers new wonders that glorify him. He's talking to us, folks. And I'm certain He's disappointed that a few Christians and a lot of atheists are the only ones listening.”

I thought everyone was tuned in to PBS.
Ed, Your science is two dimensional and without evidence. I ask you, why don’t you pick one scientific evidence that you think helps your unbelief in the Bible and lets see if you actually have proof . It amazes me how gullible you reveal yourself to be in some of your statements.

Joman.