 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
ekspiulo
Ferret
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 123
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:12 am Post subject: |
 |
|
, 
. ? ?
, , , . .
. .
[edited to remove all text which was mockery]
Last edited by ekspiulo on Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1686
Location: Macau, China
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Please stay on creation/evolution subjects in this forum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevDave
Tadpole
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 17
Location: "All over"
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nobby wrote: | | RevDave, when you make a statement, be sure you can back it up with proof. That's the reason I never get in debates on this forum, I know nothing about evolution or science! I'm a born again christian, & I never did care to study it. |
Thank you. I have not the time to put the evidence I have here right now. My biggest point is that as a believer in God's word, we should not be compromising ourselves to say "well Dr. so-and-so says this, and it is clearly against God's word...but since he is a Dr. I guess he is right and God is wrong". This is my biggest problem with the church today. We are so willing to let this little lie infiltrate into our beliefs. The Bible clearly states in several places that God created the world, and he did it in a six day (or seven if you want to include the Sabbath) peroid. The father of lies (aka Satan, Beelzebub, etc.) is trying anything he can do to destroy the church. Every little lie he tells leads to a bigger one. What are the bigger lies here? "We come from lower life forms, so we will act like animals sometimes", "A fetus is a product of evolution so abortion is OK", "Since homosexual behaviour has been observed in other animals, it must be OK" (which by the way I am still waiting for people to accept "fire-hydrant fetishes" since dogs really like them too), and the biggie that I just can-not accept "there is no God, this is all here by chance".
That it bothers people that I refuse to accept the word of man over the word of God does make me wonder where their loyaly lies, this is true...but then hopefully they will start to wonder too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
There are those that just aren't supposed to see right now. Or they do understand it but they choose to believe whatever it is they believe.
You can lead a horse to water, Amen?
But if they choose not to drink that's their choice.
Some just like to argue and get you all worked up over what?
And then you get mad and you leave.
I don't think arguing gets very far with persuasion. (reverse that LOL)
We have faith, no one can dispute that. And we believe it came from God. Whether others deny that truth or not again, is up to them.
There will always be poor among you, that's what the Lord tells us.
There will always be those who are poor in faith, poor in truth.
Then there are those who are very rich.
Maybe someday those poor would rather be rich and share with us God's goodness.
But until then....They are convinced in their own minds as we our in ours, and no one can change it but oneself.
Peace to ALL
Lone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5846
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevDave wrote: | | The Bible clearly states in several places that God created the world, and he did it in a six day (or seven if you want to include the Sabbath) peroid. The father of lies (aka Satan, Beelzebub, etc.) is trying anything he can do to destroy the church. |
Ahem. Please explain why your Bible isn't a lie from Satan.
| RevDave wrote: | | "We come from lower life forms, so we will act like animals sometimes" |
Strawman.
| RevDave wrote: | | "A fetus is a product of evolution so abortion is OK" |
Strawman.
| RevDave wrote: | | "Since homosexual behaviour has been observed in other animals, it must be OK" |
Strawman.
| RevDave wrote: | | "there is no God, this is all here by chance" |
Strawman.
I think I'm going to have to go with the pawnbroker argument. That is:
People with good arguments don't use bad arguments. Since all of your arguments are hilariously bad, we can assume you don't have any good arguments. If you do, of course, please enlighten us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nobby wrote: | What we have here is a difference of opinion! I see no personal attacks. unless you mean where you called him a liar!
Let's try to get along.  |
He claimed that Science was my God. that is a lie, not a 'Difference of opinion." It is an outright false claim and adirect attack on my Christian faith. So no, I can not get along with a liar. FIX IT. Your response is unacceptable.
Or are you saying that it is fine and dandy to have your faith mocked and personally attacked? Is THAT what you are saying I should do?
Or will something be done here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SDMD wrote: | | Nobby wrote: | What we have here is a difference of opinion! I see no personal attacks. unless you mean where you called him a liar!
Let's try to get along. |
He claimed that Science was my God. that is a lie, not a 'Difference of opinion." It is an outright false claim and adirect attack on my Christian faith. So no, I can not get along with a liar. FIX IT. Your response is unacceptable.
Or are you saying that it is fine and dandy to have your faith mocked and personally attacked? Is THAT what you are saying I should do?
Or will something be done here? |
SDMD,
A lot of us get mocked about our faith, and a lot of individuals ridicule God.
what do you think should be done to ALL of them hmm??
Being mocked is part of the lessons we have to learn, to tolerate people.
Some are big enough to turn the other cheek, and some are still babes.
Amen?
Peace
Lone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5017
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SDMD wrote: | He claimed that Science was my God. that is a lie, not a 'Difference of opinion." It is an outright false claim and adirect attack on my Christian faith. So no, I can not get along with a liar. FIX IT. Your response is unacceptable.
Or are you saying that it is fine and dandy to have your faith mocked and personally attacked? Is THAT what you are saying I should do?
Or will something be done here? |
One question? Which comes first in your life God? Or Science?
Last edited by Nobby on Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1686
Location: Macau, China
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's a non-sequitur. Science is just a format of testing and experiment that is applied to different fields of study. It's empirical. Science itself has nothing directly to say about theology, because it does not use theology for it's approach. If it DID use theology, it wouldn't be science, it would be (take your pick) - superstition, withcraft, necromancy, etc.
I'm assuming we all know the earth revolves around the Sun. There was a time when this notion rocked the Christian world. The person who proved it what put under house arrest. Why? Because it supposedly countered scripture.
The same is happening now with evolution. It is so established, has been studied in research and so much depth that it is irrefutable. If science DOES discover errors, it will correct itself through it's method of peer review and duplication of experiments.
Just as in 500 years ago, you can maintain your belief that the earth does not revolve around the sun. You can still live, work, raise a family and enjoy life. You will not crumple up into a ball. However, the fact is established. To counter shows...well...I'll just stop...this is becoming a rant.
Science has nothng to say about theology. BUT, it does happen that science explains things that were previously only explained by religion and superstition. This is the crux of the problem.
For me, when I see someone adamantly back creation because they just want to support existing interpretation of scripture, it doesn't change the fact that evolution is established. It is very much a black and white incorrect stance. So then I start to think, well...this here is wrong, VERY wrong....so what else is wrong?
Ironically, the church's stance against evolution makes me question their motives about a host of other issues. It opens a Pandora's box. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nobby wrote: | | One question? Which comes first in your life God? Or Science? |
Huh? That doesn't make sense; that is a false duality. One doesn't exclude the other in any way. And it is irrelevant to yuor reply to me.
It is like asking what is biggest, the Washington Monument or a politician's ego. The two are not meassured the same way.
Last edited by SDMD on Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lone-traveler wrote: | Being mocked is part of the lessons we have to learn, to tolerate people.
Some are big enough to turn the other cheek, and some are still babes.
Amen?
Peace
Lone |
I am not talking about mocking; I am talking about being personally attacked by outright being lied about, and a moderator then outright denying the attack and lie occured. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SDMD,
I went back and read that post like 10 times and well, I took the word "your" that you are referring to as a general "your", like they.
I don't believe it was personal.
The personal I saw was "do you prefer butter or margarine?"
And then the topic was generalized.
Sometimes I'm not quite sure when your responding if you are being general or personal.
I can see how you could have understood it that way, and I may be 100% wrong, but I didn't read it like that.
And anywho..as christians we should have patients with each other, as many times we are misunderstood.
Love thy neighbor or at least strive the best we can.
You know two wrongs don't make a right, so try not to get too frustrated with each other.
You remember I had a hard time and I explained to you that I was learning. And your patience helped me so much more to listen than the head hammering LOL Amen?
Sometimes we're all coming to the same place from different roads.
And when your on one path it's difficult to see someone coming from a different direction.
Peronally I believe that if evolution is confirmed as a fact, then I would believe and have faith that God created evolution.
ashes to ashes and dust to dust...
We all started somewhere..
We're all just in different parts of the spectrum.
some red, some green, some white and blue...and everything in between.
Have patience and Peace
Lone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1686
Location: Macau, China
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lone-traveler wrote: | | as christians we should have patients with each other |
Sounds good, I'll grab a nurse
*drum roll* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
patience 
i need a dictionary!!!
Jam 1:3 Knowing [this], that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
That's for sure LOL
I'm not much for needles, so I think I'll work on patience instead of patients. LOL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lone-traveler wrote: | SDMD,
I went back and read that post like 10 times and well, I took the word "your" that you are referring to as a general "your", like they. |
Actually, if it had been general, it would have been "their." It wasn't. It was "your," second-person singular.
| Quote: | | I don't believe it was personal. |
I do. he had spewed so incredibly many lies that this was just one more lie.
| Quote: | | Sometimes I'm not quite sure when your responding if you are being general or personal. |
I am always clear. If I am general, I make that clear. Words DO matter, and the choice of words matter as well.
| Quote: | | I can see how you could have understood it that way, and I may be 100% wrong, but I didn't read it like that. |
I did, and I still do.
| Quote: | | And anywho..as christians we should have patients with each other, as many times we are misunderstood. |
By fundie liars? We are not "misunderstood" by them, they deliberately attack us and lie about us. They have elevated lies, the bearing of false witness to a life style. They lie about evolution. They lie about abortion. They lie about homosexuals. They lie about science. They lie about the Bible. They always lie.
| Quote: | | Love thy neighbor or at least strive the best we can. |
Well, I am not that good at it. When people deliberately disrespect me and lie to and about me, then I get testy. Yes, that is my personal weakness, but it bothers me. And I also happens to be opinionated, as you have noted, so when it happens, people hear about it. That's how things are.
| Quote: | Sometimes we're all coming to the same place from different roads.
And when your on one path it's difficult to see someone coming from a different direction. |
I see VERY clearly when somebody outright lie about my path. I challenge such lies. Are you condoning the bearing of false witness like revDave has demonstrated?
| Quote: | | Peronally I believe that if evolution is confirmed as a fact, then I would believe and have faith that God created evolution. |
Well, then go have faith that God created Evolution. Because the actual occurance HAS been documented. the occurance is documented fact. Documented MANY times.
The Scientific Theory of Evolution is what tries to explain how all of these documented, factual events hang together. When the creationists and IDers claim to argue against Evolution, as not a "fact," then they are talking about the Scientific Theory. But they dishonestly try to make that look like all the individual observations have not been confirmed, and that is an outright lie. That Evolution itself occurs is a documented, confirmed and established fact.
| Quote: | ashes to ashes and dust to dust...
We all started somewhere.. |
Evolution happens to populations over generations. It is not about individual lives.
| Quote: | | Have patience and Peace |
I have both as long as people are not making absolutist, false claims and insist that they are true. When RevDave insists that Evolution is not science, then he is flat-out lying. I have NO patience with such whatsoever.
Thanks for your thoughtful post, though. I am sorry, but I know myself well enough to know I fall short of the ideal you have shown me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
