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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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the ojective view of reality is
GOD DOES NOT EXIST
ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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read the fountainhead and atlas shrugged by ayn rand
OBECTIVISM THE PHILOSOPHY OF AYN RAND
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shepreach
Cobra
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 493
Location: ga
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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objectivist wrote:
| Quote: | | Shepreach, I am accepting historical evidence based on evidence and proof (the opposite of faith). Now, you atempt to question all of history. You imply that the only knowledge we can obtain, is that which occurs during our lifetime. WOW |
not all of history, just that which pertains to the da vinci code. and not your lifetime -- i'm well aware that you were not around at the time Jesus was. but the only way you can possibly know is to have been there, it is called personal knowledge. any other kind is based on faith in something or someone. if you can prove to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that the premise of the da vinci code is based on truth, i might be inclined to consider the evidence.
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7002
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | the ojective view of reality is
GOD DOES NOT EXIST |
and what evidence do you have to support this 'objective view'? Please provide some empiracle evidence that God does not exist, I would be very interested in seeing it.
Please, however, do not assert that becasue you cannot see, smell, touch, taste, or hear Him, that it is sufficient proof that He does not exist, for such lack of physical evidence does not disprove God. There are many things that do, or may exist and be true that do not have personal physical proof.
We spend everyday of our lives believing things without proof. We believe the sun will continue to shine, we beleive the lights will come on when we flip the switch, we operate our daily lives on faith and belief, yet some want to apply a disparate argument of proof to the existence of God.
God does not exist? Prove it.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Revjp if you really want the Proof
Read The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand
Then read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn rand
Then read Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand
It will change you
of course this forum is not big enough for over 2000 pages of philosophy
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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If you don't read it you are afraid
Because the evidence and proof is there you just haven't been looking for it
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Does anybody read james michener?
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7002
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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FYI - I have read them, and then some since philosophy was a major course of study for me.
I am more partial to Russell and Nozik, but that is neither here nor there.
Do not assume that because one believes in the Bible as the inerrant Word of God that one is not well-read, or well-educated. Because Ayn Rand's writings have changed you does not mean they will change everyone - particularly when one has the truth already.
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Revjp what does Roark do that first lands him in court
What really happened to the 20th century motor company.
Objectivism holds existence as having primacy over conscienceness?
Or vice-versa?
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RevJP
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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I ask for your proof, your empiracle evidence and you give me a quiz show on philosophy?
According to Rand, reality is independent man's consciousness, curiously though she asserts that the objective view rejects any belief in the supernatural, yet her very philosophy leaves the door open wide for the existence of the supernatural.
Her objective view asserts that and individual or group of individuals cannot create their own reality yet her view is quite clearly creating its own. Something cannot exist or be truth because the objectivist does not accept it?
Your objectivist point of view does not prove there is no God, it merely says that unless you have physical proof you cannot believe there is a God.
I am saying that I believe there is a God and unless you can provide me proof, empiracle evidence to the contrary then your assertions do not hold water.
Rand's basis for objectivism is grounded in selfish pursuit of one's self-interest ("...he must live for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself; he must work for his rational self-interest, with the achievement of his own happiness as the highest moral purpose of his life.”)
My goodness, even Nietzsche's Ubernensche had a higher moral purpose than that. While he may have determined that man no longer needed God, he willingly supported the idea that man should and could sublimate his passions and direct them into the creative and moral efforts to benefit all mankind.
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:16 am Post subject: |
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What caused Roark to first end up in court?
What really happened to the 20th century motor company?
Still haven't answered.
You do not understand the morality of reason.
that is the most irrational interpretation I have ever heard..
the objectivist morality is based on individual rights
It leads to laissez-faire capitalism leads to furthering human progress beyond your imagination leads to happiness
the Bible morality is based on altruism
It leads to communism, socialism,Nazism, leads to horrible poverty and utter starvation as we have seen from Soviet Russia and china and north Korea and north vietnam leads to depression, suffering.
Does your god want you to suffer and starve? If not why would he give you such a horrible morality that doesn't work? You know being a unlimited fountain of knowledge you would assume that you could not claim ignorrance on this one.
Since you won't respond to the questions from the novel until you can look them up. you haven't read those books. you are a liar.
lying gets you nowhere.
Now that you have looked up the answers to my novel questions, go ahead and post them i won't buy it.
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell
Last edited by objectivist on Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Revjp said
Rand's basis for objectivism is grounded in selfish pursuit of one's self-interest ("...he must live for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself; he must work for his rational self-interest, with the achievement of his own happiness as the highest moral purpose of his life.”)
this is true but out of context
you have to read her book. I sure can't spell it out on this forum.
Revjp said:
My goodness, even Nietzsche's Ubernensche had a higher moral purpose than that. While he may have determined that man no longer needed God, he willingly supported the idea that man should and could sublimate his passions and direct them into the creative and moral efforts to benefit all mankind.
Folks, this is altruism. this "benefits all mankind" by sending them into utter poverty and starvation. Altruism leads to statism. Statism is a broad term for all forms of communism,naziism,socialism,ect.
But go ahead and have your fun believing that I'm wrong
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7002
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | the objectivist morality is based on individual rights |
No, it is based on self-interest.
| Quote: | | It leads to laissez-faire capitalism leads to furthering human progress beyond your imagination leads to happiness |
laissez-faire capitalism is a belief that the state should not intefere with business practices at all, unless it is to protect the rights of the individual. This system with a lack of checks and balances does not lead to furthering human progress. A system with no restraints coupled with a philosohpy of self-interest assures greed and corruption and the goal of destroying the competition in order to feather one's own nest.
| Quote: | | Folks, this is altruism. this "benefits all mankind" by sending them into utter poverty and starvation. Altruism leads to statism. Statism is a broad term for all forms of communism,naziism,socialism,ect. |
Of course a learned individual such as yourself recognizes the fallacy of logic here, but I will ask you for your proof of this anyway.
| Quote: | | But go ahead and have your fun believing that I'm wrong |
I have to laugh. You come here and tell us that we're wrong in what we believe, and seem miffed that someone does not accept your philisophical beliefs - it just seems.... ironic.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Altruism is the morality of sacrifice. Your brother's keeper and all that. It is the base for all collectivism. Altruism=Collectivism=statism=Communism=socialism= m=nazism=liberals=conservatives
Proof?
Soviet Russia, Red China, North Korea, Germany, Vietnam, Ethiopia, Almost all of Africa, almost all of the middle east, South America.
Don't you see a common trend?
Come on Revjp
I wouldn't have to explain all this if you have read Atlas Shrugged
Come on, admit that you lied about reading them.
It's obvious
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:02 am Post subject: |
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not enough room on this forum for explaining an entire economic system.
I could but i don't think you would aprove.
Once again, Obvious you haven't read her books
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