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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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that's to bad canada is borderline socialist
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell |
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Javan
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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What?  Maybe the NDP party, but not the rest of the country. |
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ELI
Alley Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: FREEDOM? |
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CAN-A-DUH = FREEDOM FREE-LOADER
You have no desire to learn -- only to sow discord amongst the brethren
I posted this in light of your false accusations and teaching.
Peace-- out! |
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Javan
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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***Javan shakes his head***
You are such a child ELI, how old are you really?  |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| objectivist wrote: |
I am not syaing that the U.S. as a population was not mostly christian.
It was.
I am saying that the founding fathers decided that the government should do nothing that is not absolute nessesity.
Give me a reason why the government should have anything to do religion or explain why the government should be allowed to advertise a particular religion, or have anything to do with it.
That was there intention. |
I agree with much of this post. The government cannot and should not "advertise" a particular religion. This would certainly fly in the face of freedom to practice your religious preference. Read my post and you will see that on this subject we are closer than you may think. 
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"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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gswisher
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 421
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| objectivist wrote: | The only reason why anyone would care if there was complete separation of church and state is that they wanted to advertise their religion, or that they want to set a precedent to make this country a religious state.(Which ever religion the happened to be a part of)
Now if they had a Koran or the Torah and the Talmud or me hanging banners saying there is no god allover the government buildings, what would you say then? |
I still think you are missing the difference between the founders' intent to avoid endorsing a particular sect of Christianity, and simply acknowledging God in our documents as a nation. If you think about it there is a huge difference. In our pluralistic society, it is hard to imagine the days when we as a nation had a common belief in the God of the Bible, common ancestry, common values and morals. These things were a given.
The founders intent was not to seperate God from state, but religious doctrines from state. In our present day mind set even that latter statement takes on a totally different meaning. They were making a huge breakthrough just in setting up a government that did not answer to a pope. If they wanted God out, why do so many documents and speeches include him?
Our constitution does not guarantee freedom from religion, but freedom of religion. We were not founded on atheisim, Islam or some other religion.
The very first official act of the Continental Congress was a call to prayer.
| Quote: | | In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle have observed frequent instances of superintending Providence in our favor.... And have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or, do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? --Ben Franklin |
| Quote: | These next words were spoken by George Washington as he resigned his commission as general of the Continental Army on December 23, 1783.
"I consider it an indespensible duty to close this last solemn act of my official life by commending the interests of our dearest country to the protection of Almighty God and those who have the superintendence of them into His holy keeping." |
| Quote: | On March 28, 1787 when Dr. Benjamin Rush proposed his plan for public education in America he wrote:
"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write - - - (and a)bove all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education - -"
"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty- - -" |
[/quote]
_________________
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the FULL knowledge of Him.--Eph 1:17 |
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gswisher
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 421
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Objectivism rejects any form of altruism — the claim that morality consists in living for others or for society. |
The concept of a self-made man is a myth. It is not even slightly reasonable to think that a man is an island to himself; that he receives no benefit from the talent and work of others, society, organizations or parents; that he was never given anything he did not earn; that he did not succeed because of the contributions of others. This completely undermines the whole concept of a family and community. How utterly arrogant and misguided.
_________________
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the FULL knowledge of Him.--Eph 1:17 |
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brotherskeeper
Ferret
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:11 am Post subject: Gswisher |
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Gwisher said:
"Our constitution does not guarantee freedom from religion, but freedom
of
religion. "
Response:
What happens when one religious sect concludes that the statements of another are subversive to "true" religion? Who decides, which, if either, should be struck down by the standard of "freedom of religion, not from it"?
Our constitution is based on the principles of individual rights. A
religion as such cannot be free to act, only individuals can.
Our constitution guarantees an individual the right to worship God as he pleases or not at all.
Our constitution guarantees an individual that his right of religious
freedom will not be infringed by someone else's religious beliefs.
It is precisely "freedom from religion" that protects your right to
worship as you please.
_________________
The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:13 am Post subject: |
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What he said
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:18 am Post subject: |
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in repsonse to Gswisher , he said this
The concept of a self-made man is a myth. It is not even slightly reasonable to think that a man is an island to himself; that he receives no benefit from the talent and work of others, society, organizations or parents; that he was never given anything he did not earn; that he did not succeed because of the contributions of others. This completely undermines the whole concept of a family and community. How utterly arrogant and misguided.
How utterly IGNORRANT and misguided.
Read The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand
Read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
And All her non-fiction
Then atleast you will have the necessary knowledge to argue.
Till then let's stick to the TOPIC.
_________________
The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: |
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obejectervisst, pull up your socks... your wisdom is showing....
You claim to not regard the word of God as truth... yet throw around the fallible word of man as if it is absolute truth and should be revered.
How cute...
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Peace
The HeKkLeR |
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gswisher
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 421
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Gswisher |
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| Quote: | | What happens when one religious sect concludes that the statements of another are subversive to "true" religion? Who decides, which, if either, should be struck down by the standard of "freedom of religion, not from it"? |
As I have said time and time again, the government recognizing God has nothing to do with religious sects. It was fear of state sponsored churches that led our founders to write the first ammendment.
So nothing happens. They have the right to worship as they please. They are protected by the constitution. Read above and see the extent to which the founders of our country included the broad concept of God and the Bible in government. And then explain how it is wrong for our government officials to so much as acknowledge God, or pray in Congress.
You keep shifting the argument.
| Quote: | Our constitution is based on the principles of individual rights. A
religion as such cannot be free to act, only individuals can.
Our constitution guarantees an individual the right to worship God as he pleases or not at all. |
WHo si disagreeing that people can worship as they choose??
| Quote: | Our constitution guarantees an individual that his right of religious
freedom will not be infringed by someone else's religious beliefs. |
Where does it say that? SHow me the guarantee. Should we put walls around churches and ban them from the yellow pages and billboards so no one has to be exposed to Christianity? This whole concept is foreign to our foundation. Our founding fathers were wrong to make any inclusion of God in any way--let alone pray in a session of Congress. The facts disagree with you.
| Quote: | It is precisely "freedom from religion" that protects your right to
worship as you please. |
Nonsense. If I were hindu I could be exposed to our government's inclusion of God and still be free to practice as I choose. Christians function in many countries were there are state-sponsored religions.
_________________
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the FULL knowledge of Him.--Eph 1:17 |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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government is to be restricted to what is absolutly necessary.
why can't you get that through your thick head?
they can pray on their own time.
Not while they are representing people who are not christian in a government office
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell |
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objectivist
German Shepherd
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry.
Why can't you understand that?
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The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.--Kenneth Quinell |
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thunder
Lion King
Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 1222
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:04 pm Post subject: Okay ... okay ... |
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Okay ... okay ... Jefferson Davis ... not Thomas Jefferson!
I indicated the man was the confederate president during the civil war then mis stated his name ... I apologise ... okay.
Am I forgiven?
As for objectivist ... mr. objectivist ... get real .. you aren't interested in a discussion about anything.
You want to make up a topic then try and dominate the subject to agree with what ever twisted opinion you happen to hold.
You aren't interested in learning or teaching ... just bantering.
Any one who says something not in agreement with your posturing ... you denounce them ignorant, absurd and rediculous for having a thought different from your own.
Other than that, an interesting subject.
thunder
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Submit to God in Christ |
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